Author Topic: What will Eb do?  (Read 16327 times)

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2021, 04:19:36 PM »
Also, Proven Guilty states this:

"There’s a sign Mac’s got hanging up at the door that reads ACCORDED NEUTRAL GROUND. It means that the place was supposed to be a no-combat zone, under the terms laid out in the Unseelie Accords, the most recent and influential set of principles agreed upon by most of the various nations of the supernatural maybe ten or twelve years ago."

IMHO, if there *was* something equivalent to the Accords before 1994, it clearly didn't include anything which gave Eb (or the WCouncil in general) any grounds against the WCourt.
Emphasis mine.  The RPG is only of middling veracity, anyway.  The details sometimes contradict the books.  Better than speculation, but the books should take precedent.


Regardless, the Accords are there to provide structure to international conflicts, not to totally prevent war or to make war the only option.  Just because the two nations didn't go to war doesn't mean that there were no actionable grounds to go to war. 
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline toodeep

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 848
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2021, 03:46:43 PM »
About a range of topics:

I would love to see an ancient Sumerian around.  That would give us a chance to learn more about ghouls.  I have long felt that every civilization developed protective supernatural beings - ghouls in Sumer, half-red vampires in the Aztecs, white court in Etruscans, etc.  These beings were often created by well meaning wizards, like the half-reds binding a hunter spirit to a human to give him extra powers.  In the case of the reds it was poorly done because if they ever gave in to the temptation they became a threat.  But with the ghouls in Sumer they were essentially their civilization's supernatural warriors to counter other civilizations supernatural warriors, and they self-limited their population to what could be sustained by eating the natural dead... until they didn't.  I had a character concept in the RPG of a ghoul that had psychometry, which is what the religious leader class of the ghouls had until they were destroyed.  When they eat something, they learn from it.  "You are what you eat" applies to ghouls too.  If they eat too much cow, they become docile.  To stay intelligent, they need to eat intelligent people.  And if one with psychometry eats enough wizards... boom Sumerian priest-wizard ghoul.

The blackstaff (the person holding the position, not the item) chooses who gets the blackstaff (the position and item) next.  I assume it is worked out to happen automatically at his death.  I think it is very likely Harry will get the staff.  Anyone who thinks that mother winter doesn't know where her staff is, is kidding themselves.  She's let them have it for some reason, maybe even so it can come down to Harry at the critical point.

I think Harry's time travel will be incorporeal.  He will go back as a spirit, since he did make some comment about how hard it would be to move mass through time at one point.  The question is whether he needs to have the blackstaff at the time to protect him from black magic ramifications?  I think he will generally stay within the actions we've seen happen in the books and fill some holes we've seen.  Who repaired little Chicago - TT Harry.  Who helped defent Arctis Tor - TT Harry.  Mab was willing to wait for Harry, because she literally knew from Harry that she would succeed in getting Harry.  There are little inconsistencies we've seen through the book like where Lindquist lives that I think will supposedly be explained by mess ups Harry makes in the TT.  We'll have to see how that works out.

I think the Mirror Mirror book will revolve more around Harry saving/redeeming the MM Harry, rather than killing him.  The book series is getting much more seriously into redemption arcs.  I doubt MM Harry will live through the redemption though...

I've always thought Eb could have used the blackstaff to blackmagic control a high ranking military office and track Papa Wraith by satellite and then just have dropped a missile on him, but I suspect either Eb didn't think of it, or that he wasn't willing to use that much black magic on a personal vendetta.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24350
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2021, 04:07:33 PM »

  Yeah, well, the more speculation I hear about Mirror Mirror the less I am looking forward to it.. The most promising speculation I've heard so far is that it will be a way for Harry to meet up with Chandler.  Not just for possible rescue, but Chandler may give Harry the straight poop as to why the Council wanted to be rid of him so badly.  Carlos didn't give him that, only the last play by play,not what led up to it.  Chandler might give him insight into the politics, which as we've seen before is very important.  Also remember it doesn't follow necessarily that Harry will even see his other self.  That in of itself violates one of the laws of time travel that goes beyond the seven laws.  That didn't even happen in the original Trek episode, evil Kirk changed places with good Kirk, Spock saw through him and locked him up until he got his Kirk back and sent the bad one back to where he belonged.

Offline toodeep

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 848
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2021, 05:11:15 PM »
It's my understanding from WoJ's that Harry is summoned to the MM universe by alternate Harry.  Alternate Harry apparently has a tendency of getting into situation where it is helpful if people believe he is dead, and summons our Harry to take the fall for him so he can disappear and be safely "dead" for awhile.  I suspect MM Harry will be in league with Denarians because Jim has also said that Harry selling his names to the librarian demon in earlier books would definitely come back to haunt him, and this seems like a good way to do that.  If our Chandler is going to be there (which I think is highly unlikely unless there is a WoJ indicating it) then probability would indicate he would have to have something to do with our Harry's arrival, like have given MM Harry information about him or at least part of his name to summon him.  That would explain why out of all the infinite multiverses they managed to wind up in the same one (other than divine manipulation).

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24350
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2021, 05:40:49 PM »
It's my understanding from WoJ's that Harry is summoned to the MM universe by alternate Harry.  Alternate Harry apparently has a tendency of getting into situation where it is helpful if people believe he is dead, and summons our Harry to take the fall for him so he can disappear and be safely "dead" for awhile.  I suspect MM Harry will be in league with Denarians because Jim has also said that Harry selling his names to the librarian demon in earlier books would definitely come back to haunt him, and this seems like a good way to do that.  If our Chandler is going to be there (which I think is highly unlikely unless there is a WoJ indicating it) then probability would indicate he would have to have something to do with our Harry's arrival, like have given MM Harry information about him or at least part of his name to summon him.  That would explain why out of all the infinite multiverses they managed to wind up in the same one (other than divine manipulation).

That is interesting, Harry only gave Chauncy part of his name back in Fool Moon I believe, though Chauncy did tempt him with information about his mother and how his parents died and who did it.  Harry knew better than to give him his whole name, but apparently some of it is enough for Chauncy to have some power over him.. Or could it be that it was the other Harry that traded away his whole name?

I'm confused, maybe it wasn't in this thread, but I know it is one of the others, in his last appearance Jim said that Chandler would turn up in Mirror Mirror.   

Offline SerScot

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1585
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2021, 03:38:07 PM »
I actually wonder if The Merlin cut Harry out of the Council in order to free his hands.  It wouldn’t shock me if The Merlin is on the Gray Council.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24350
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2021, 04:00:04 PM »
I actually wonder if The Merlin cut Harry out of the Council in order to free his hands.  It wouldn’t shock me if The Merlin is on the Gray Council.

I have speculated that the Merlin is on the Gray Council.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2021, 04:29:56 AM »
It's my understanding from WoJ's that Harry is summoned to the MM universe by alternate Harry.  Alternate Harry apparently has a tendency of getting into situation where it is helpful if people believe he is dead, and summons our Harry to take the fall for him so he can disappear and be safely "dead" for awhile.  I suspect MM Harry will be in league with Denarians because Jim has also said that Harry selling his names to the librarian demon in earlier books would definitely come back to haunt him, and this seems like a good way to do that.  If our Chandler is going to be there (which I think is highly unlikely unless there is a WoJ indicating it) then probability would indicate he would have to have something to do with our Harry's arrival, like have given MM Harry information about him or at least part of his name to summon him.  That would explain why out of all the infinite multiverses they managed to wind up in the same one (other than divine manipulation).

Yes there is WOJ the most recent Dragon Q& A Chandler Prime meets Harry Prime in MM. If you think about it to summon Harry requires proper use of his full name, which Alt Harry knows already.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24350
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2021, 03:02:54 PM »
Yes there is WOJ the most recent Dragon Q& A Chandler Prime meets Harry Prime in MM. If you think about it to summon Harry requires proper use of his full name, which Alt Harry knows already.

Which is the excuse to get Chandler back to his own dimension.