What does this mean?

[Snark Knight]

What you quote is from Blood Rites, from an angry injured young wizard who has discovered the murderer of his mother.. That is a nasty quote, he felt that, but it was impotent, he didn't kill a mouse with an elephant gun, his efforts had no effect on Lord Raith.. 

Interesting hypothetical ... What if Harry was intuiting something correct there? He's stated a couple times that vampire sorcerors and necromancers draw on a different and darker power source than regular wizard life/emotion magic. I wonder if the protection Raith is benefiting from extends to attacks based on dark energy?

Could Margaret's insight in cursing him successfully just have been something like Kumori's philosophy that the cold dark greasy energy source doesn't inherently have to be used for evil ends?

[vultur]

It easily could, especially as Lord Raith's protection is described in similar terms - if the Outsiders gave him a shield, they might have left a "backdoor" for their own power.

But I'm not sure the dark energy would even have needed to get around the protection directly, just give Harry the power he'd need to do it indirectly.

Harry saw with the keys that Lord Raith isn't immune to magically-caused physical harm, so being telekinetically bashed enough would eventually run him out of healing energy and kill him.

[morriswalters]

However, the reversal of that curse did kill off another bloodline, a race of vampires that were dispersed world wide..  So Harry could have heard their cries as they died.  You leave out the fact that the originator of the spell was the Red King, that power level was his, magnified by the gods of C.I., not Harry.  However it did trigger a horrible vision..  What you quote is from Blood Rites, from an angry injured young wizard who has discovered the murderer of his mother.. That is a nasty quote, he felt that, but it was impotent, he didn't kill a mouse with an elephant gun, his efforts had no effect on Lord Raith.. 

I think being a star born puts one on a razor's edge, like an archangel or a god, awesome power, that can create as well as destroy.  Harry has felt and wielded the power of both hell fire and soul fire, he rejected one, he is still exploring what the other is and it's uses.   

Killing a mouse with an elephant gun was about the Red King killing three people with his curse.  If you're saying that's what he did then okay.  Harry killed thousands.

Harry did nothing in Blood Rites because Eb squeezed his burnt hand and hurt him to break him out of his rage.  Precisely the same thing that Butters does to Harry when Murphy dies.  Once is coincidence, twice is Jim talking at us.  Here's the Oppenheimer quote.

Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.

[Mira]

Killing a mouse with an elephant gun was about the Red King killing three people with his curse.  If you're saying that's what he did then okay.  Harry killed thousands.

Did anyone say it was okay?  I don't remember saying it was okay..  The Red King was going to kill three humans, maybe four, Thomas is also a descendant of Eb, starting off with killing a then six or eight year old child, I don't remember Maggie's exact age... His spell, he originated it, he powered it.  Harry killed the youngest vampire, who was Susan before she turned, she wasn't human when he killed her, that blew back the Red King's own curse on him and his descendants, no humans... Those of the half turned died because they had been alive beyond the life span of a human.. Once the vamp half died, they died of old age, the younger half turned were suddenly cured, they were human once more... So I guess you could say when he wiped out a species, Harry also saved hundreds if not thousands of half turned who were doomed at some point to lose control and go all vamp..  I am not here to say that it was okay or not okay, it is a bit more complicated than that statement makes it out as.

arry did nothing in Blood Rites because Eb squeezed his burnt hand and hurt him to break him out of his rage.

He didn't want Harry to do more harm to himself in his injured condition... But honestly, Harry's reaction in his weakened state was perfectly normal..  It was a very human reaction, he was deprived of ever knowing his mother because this asshole murdered her... He has suffered all of his life because of it, yet no justice for Lord Raith as far as he knew at that moment.. And Eb if you remember also told him not even he, the Blackstaff could bring Raith to justice.. Yeah, I'd call that a very normal reaction on Harry's part.. Emotional, yes, out of control, yes, but normal, that is why we need others to bring us back to our senses like Eb did..

And yes, Butters also did it when Murphy died, and yes, it was a totally normal reaction from Harry.  What's more, the Sword knew it as well, it gave him a good burn to bring him back, it worked.  If Harry was truly evil, it would have cut his arm off.

[morriswalters]

When I say okay it means I am okay with your determination of what Jim wrote.  What I wrote is me tossing random ideas in the air and seeing if they have legs.  It's fairly obvious, here and now, that they don't.  I'm okay with that.

Jim however does, this a lot.  So he wants to set something up for some future plot device he writes it in early and calls back to it. He does it in Proven Guilty with Maeve and the Cantina scene in Summer Knight for instance. He's called out this irrational anger twice now and keeps throwing in references to a destroyer. And there are those missing two minutes.

[Mira]

When I say okay it means I am okay with your determination of what Jim wrote.  What I wrote is me tossing random ideas in the air and seeing if they have legs.  It's fairly obvious, here and now, that they don't.  I'm okay with that.

Jim however does, this a lot.  So he wants to set something up for some future plot device he writes it in early and calls back to it. He does it in Proven Guilty with Maeve and the Cantina scene in Summer Knight for instance. He's called out this irrational anger twice now and keeps throwing in references to a destroyer. And there are those missing two minutes.

However the examples you sight are examples of rational anger, not irrational anger, in the end, yes, they can make one a destroyer, but sometimes a destroyer is what is needed. 

[Arjan]

However the examples you sight are examples of rational anger, not irrational anger, in the end, yes, they can make one a destroyer, but sometimes a destroyer is what is needed.

It does not seem to matter that much whether the anger is rational or irrational. It is about keeping control or loosing it.

[Mira]

It does not seem to matter that much whether the anger is rational or irrational. It is about keeping control or loosing it.

That too, but that comes with maturity.. But there are times, like when you see the person you love gunned down and killed stupidly after she just saved hundreds of lives, you tend to lose it..  To not lose it in such a moment wouldn't be human.

[morriswalters]

Harry in the book is no longer a young man.  And killing Rudolph would have been murder. This really isn't debatable. He was going to kill Rudolph with magic just as Lea  had suggested Justin was teaching him to do. And this is in the text.

[Mira]

Harry in the book is no longer a young man.  And killing Rudolph would have been murder. This really isn't debatable. He was going to kill Rudolph with magic just as Lea  had suggested Justin was teaching him to do. And this is in the text.

No, Harry is no longer a young man, though he is still considered a young wizard.  However watching
Rudolph gun down Murphy, who wasn't just his lover, but his friend and back up for almost all of his adult life.  In the stress of the moment,it was too much, he lost it, it was a very normal reaction, I don't think it matters much how he tried to kill him, it was just the easiest for him.. Ironic when you think about it, because you could say that Rudolph also lost it, the craziness of watching Murphy kill a giant who had been killing innocents by the hundreds, was too much, it made him insane.. He used the thing in hand that was easiest for him to get to and use... The gun that he kept his trigger finger on, and he used it.  In Harry's case, the Sword understood, it burned him to bring him back to himself, then he was ashamed for having lost it.  Wonder if anything will bring Rudolph back to reality?

[Arjan]

That too, but that comes with maturity.. But there are times, like when you see the person you love gunned down and killed stupidly after she just saved hundreds of lives, you tend to lose it..  To not lose it in such a moment wouldn't be human.

Quite human but if you ask Uriel about it..

[morriswalters]

Well putting aside what I consider normal human behavior for a moment.  For the character Harry Dresden, what is Jim saying?  Here's how he describes the sword now.

Michael touched the blade of Fidelacchius again, more reverently. “Angels aren’t allowed to interfere with mortals or their free will,” he said. “If you’re right, Harry . . . this blade of light is a direct expression of the will of an angel. It can’t impinge upon the free will of a mortal. It can only fight evil beings who attempt the same.”

Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 178). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

It burned Harry.  Was he doing evil? Not was he having a bad day, where his friends had to restrain him?  But where he was prepared to do harm to Butters if he had to to get to Numb Nuts(Rudolph).

Now back to the human race.  Most people don't react like this.  They are prostrated by grief, it doesn't turn them into raving murderers.

[Mira]

Now back to the human race.  Most people don't react like this.  They are prostrated by grief, it doesn't turn them into raving murderers.

No? Grief takes many forms, witnessing a senseless murder one very well might react violently.. In the middle of a battle, adrenaline levels are very high, people do react with anger, especially if they are in the middle of combat at the time.  A soldier seeing his or her friend go down, doesn't melt into a puddle of grief, that is for later.   Harry didn't turn into a raving murderer, if he had, there was no way anyone could have stopped him short of cutting off his arm and most likely his head as well.   

Yes, the Sword did burn Harry to remind him, to bring him back, he was hysterical with grief.  The point is, the burn reminded Harry that killing Rudolph was the wrong thing to do.. It sobered Harry up, then he melted into a puddle of grief, briefly.  If he was truly evil, none of that would have stopped him.

It can’t impinge upon the free will of a mortal. It can only fight evil beings who attempt the same.”

And it didn't impinge on Harry's free will, it reminded him of his choices, and Harry chose to stop.. It didn't fight an evil being here in Harry, it gave him a choice.  If the Sword felt that Harry was evil, it would have lopped his arm off, neither Butters nor Sanya would have forgiven him and held his close in his grief. 

[Arjan]

Well putting aside what I consider normal human behavior for a moment.  For the character Harry Dresden, what is Jim saying?  Here's how he describes the sword now.It burned Harry.  Was he doing evil? Not was he having a bad day, where his friends had to restrain him?  But where he was prepared to do harm to Butters if he had to to get to Numb Nuts(Rudolph).

Now back to the human race.  Most people don't react like this.  They are prostrated by grief, it doesn't turn them into raving murderers.

Most reactions by normal human beings are not exactly natural. They are, for good reasons, tempered by the necessity to live in big groups in a well structured society. That necessity is there from the beginning and helps form behavior but can also evaporate fast under the wrong circumstances.

Revenge is a very normal emotion especially in societies where justice is not that well organized. It might be the only way to get some form of justice and it might also necessary to keep your reputation which is all important for the safety of your dependents.

The dresdenverse supernatural world is far closer to early medieval Iceland so there revenge is an important emotion that can save you and yours or doom families in a continuing vendetta.

Harry is sucked into that world.

[morriswalters]

This isn't medieval Iceland and Harry wasn't raised there. And I don't think that every few books Harry is suppose to throw a temper tantrum and try to kill somebody. Here's what Harry says in Skin Game when he holds his temper in check.

Michael watched my face closely as we carried her. “What?” I asked. “You aren’t angry,” he said. “That she’s hurt.” “Like hell I’m not,” I said. “It’s coming. After we take care of her. When it’s time.” Michael grunted. “You aren’t more angry than you would be if it was me. Or Butters, here.” I grunted. “She’s not a delicate princess,” I said. “She’s a warrior. Warriors have enemies. Sometimes warriors get hurt.” I felt my jaws clench. “And then their friends even things up.”

Butcher, Jim. Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (pp. 248-249). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Which is different from going berserk. This indicates two very different Harry's.  In Battle Ground he's defending Chicago. So he stops, goes nuts, assaults a friend, and tries to murder a fruitcake for being a fruitcake. That isn't a vendetta.  I don't know what it's suppose to represent, but it ain't that.