How hard did Ebenezar try to kill Lord Raith?

[twelve]

I think there is some underestimation on the White Courts security during the full reign of Lord Raith. Sure there wasn't a lot of free thinking when he was fully in charge but one good thing about the security detail during that era was there would have been no loose lips. I got the impression that Lord Raith moved around a lot as part of his security precautions. Even Lara, who even before she took full reign, did a lot of the administration aspect of running the White Court and didn't always know where dear ole daddy was. The whole nuke a location option doesn't work too well when you don't know where your target is at any given time. Setting up an object from orbit or a new volcano or earthquake to hit needs some serious set up time to pull off. So with those options off the table, Eb would have to be less than subtle in his attempt to kill him and as Raith was always surrounded by his thralls and could always GTFO before Eb could even come close. I don't think he would have been as easy to kill as some seem to think.

[Mira]

I think there is some underestimation on the White Courts security during the full reign of Lord Raith. Sure there wasn't a lot of free thinking when he was fully in charge but one good thing about the security detail during that era was there would have been no loose lips. I got the impression that Lord Raith moved around a lot as part of his security precautions. Even Lara, who even before she took full reign, did a lot of the administration aspect of running the White Court and didn't always know where dear ole daddy was. The whole nuke a location option doesn't work too well when you don't know where your target is at any given time. Setting up an object from orbit or a new volcano or earthquake to hit needs some serious set up time to pull off. So with those options off the table, Eb would have to be less than subtle in his attempt to kill him and as Raith was always surrounded by his thralls and could always GTFO before Eb could even come close. I don't think he would have been as easy to kill as some seem to think.

 I don't either, and given what Harry describes he feels when he tries himself to kill Raith, he actually may be an illusion of some sort.  What if it turns out that Margaret indeed did kill him, and what we see is a shell or better yet an illusion of some sort that is occupied by an Outsider.  This would explain the inability to feed, and since his body doesn't seem to be consumed from with in as Lara said was happening to Thomas, something else is going on.  However to maintain this, even for an Outsider is very taxing, this would explain Raith's importance. 

[groinkick]

I've asked myself this question as well.  Why not just obliterate Raith's car when driving or something.  The only thing I could come up with is that just as the Entropy curse causes anything bad that can happen, to happen regardless of how unlikely (like a frozen turkey falling from an airplane), perhaps his protection offers the opposite.  It's entropy protection meaning that he basically has unbelievable magical luck when it comes to attempts on his life.

[Mira]

I've asked myself this question as well.  Why not just obliterate Raith's car when driving or something.  The only thing I could come up with is that just as the Entropy curse causes anything bad that can happen, to happen regardless of how unlikely (like a frozen turkey falling from an airplane), perhaps his protection offers the opposite.  It's entropy protection meaning that he basically has unbelievable magical luck when it comes to attempts on his life.

Or if he really is an Outsider in the guise of Lord Raith, he isn't going to be easy to kill because he no longer exists.

[Snark Knight]

Or if he really is an Outsider in the guise of Lord Raith, he isn't going to be easy to kill because he no longer exists.

I think outsider mental processes are too alien for them to successfully carry off an impersonation in a court that's hyper-attuned to behavioural nuances for thirty-some years.

[morriswalters]

The catch with that argument is that he wouldn't need a satellite, a nice torso sized rock like the one he flung as an opener in PT would be enough to make LR lose everything below the neck if it hit him. It's especially silly with how Blood Rites went out of it's way to show how piss-poor Lord Raith's security was.

Ebenezar has shown a bunch of ways to take him down which is why Blood Rites looks weird in hindsight and this sort of thread pops up from time to time.

In the real world we'd track him and end him with a Hellfire missile.  This isn't the real world and killing someone powerful  who doesn't want to be killed isn't all that easy in the first place. Eventually people notice.

[BrainFireBob]

I've asked myself this question as well.  Why not just obliterate Raith's car when driving or something.  The only thing I could come up with is that just as the Entropy curse causes anything bad that can happen, to happen regardless of how unlikely (like a frozen turkey falling from an airplane), perhaps his protection offers the opposite.  It's entropy protection meaning that he basically has unbelievable magical luck when it comes to attempts on his life.

I favor the idea that what she did was expand his protection, such that it ground out any energy he tried to feed on.

As to how he went so long- I assume he started topped off and never did anything while desperately seeking a way out.

[forumghost]

In the real world we'd track him and end him with a Hellfire missile.  This isn't the real world and killing someone powerful  who doesn't want to be killed isn't all that easy in the first place. Eventually people notice.

How exactly would you track down the Wizard that you dont know exists, who can be anywhere in the world at a moments notice, look like anyone, control minds, and time travel?

[morriswalters]

I was referring to Lord Raith, not Eb.

However just for laughs and giggles.  If a organization like the Librarians exist then the existence of wizards isn't a secret. Almost certainly there would be quislings, people like Kincaid, jealous lovers, and money. Can you see where this is going? One bright sunny morning Eb would be sitting at his table with his favorite brew looking at his freshly washed and licensed pickup.  He wouldn't hear the missile until it was too late to react.

[TheCuriousFan]

In the real world we'd track him and end him with a Hellfire missile.  This isn't the real world and killing someone powerful  who doesn't want to be killed isn't all that easy in the first place. Eventually people notice.

That difficulty in tracking didn't stop Eb from getting close enough to supposedly attempt it three times.

[forumghost]

I was referring to Lord Raith, not Eb.

However just for laughs and giggles.  If a organization like the Librarians exist then the existence of wizards isn't a secret. Almost certainly there would be quislings, people like Kincaid, jealous lovers, and money. Can you see where this is going? One bright sunny morning Eb would be sitting at his table with his favorite brew looking at his freshly washed and licensed pickup.  He wouldn't hear the missile until it was too late to react.

So you're suggesting the Library of Congress would convince the US Military to start throwing about drone strikes on US soil against Civilian targets because "Trust us guys, Vamires and Wizards are for real."

I don't think that's going to fly.

[Mira]

So you're suggesting the Library of Congress would convince the US Military to start throwing about drone strikes on US soil against Civilian targets because "Trust us guys, Vamires and Wizards are for real."

I don't think that's going to fly.

Except in these days of the internet and outlandish conspiracy theories that people buy into, it could very well fly.

[TheCuriousFan]

So you're suggesting the Library of Congress would convince the US Military to start throwing about drone strikes on US soil against Civilian targets because "Trust us guys, Vamires and Wizards are for real."

I don't think that's going to fly.

And even if it did, that kind of move invites some major retaliation and the Librarians would know that.

[Snark Knight]

So you're suggesting the Library of Congress would convince the US Military to start throwing about drone strikes on US soil against Civilian targets because "Trust us guys, Vamires and Wizards are for real."

I don't think that's going to fly.

I'd be surprised if they don't have capabilities to pull off a successful version of the "just tell the feds it's terrorists" option that Murphy suggested for dealing with the Denarians in SmF.

Heck, they even might have bureaucromancer'ed themselves an off-the-books drone squadron of their own.

[Mira]

And even if it did, that kind of move invites some major retaliation and the Librarians would know that.

That doesn't seem to stop anyone these days.. Wars are fought differently now, they are very sneaky, impossible to pin down everything.  It becomes a game of wack a-mo on both sides and usually it is only the innocent bystanders that get hurt.  When you look at Battle Ground, who was really hurt?  Do you think the Fomor were really set back that far?  Yeah, the Ethinu was eliminated, but it is unclear if that got the king, I cannot remember, they didn't get Listen, they can come back to fight another day.. Namshiel is back in even a more dangerous and powerful form that he was as old Thorny.  The White Council suffered some losses among it's Wardens, but the Senior Council is still in tact..  The Black Court made huge gains, as far as the dead Wardens now vamps go.  Lara lost Thomas, but she gained Harry, Mab has more prestige.. So who lost?  The people of Chicago, that's who, they suffered and more civilians are going to suffer, the Librarians cannot win the fight if they try to go after the supernatural world, it's too hidden, they don't understand it, and conventional weapons are pretty useless.