Marcone could probably beat Harry in a duel.

[Snark Knight]

Now that he is kicked out of the Council, Harry has no restraints on what knowledge he can acquire now..  The only limitation is getting it, and I bet Bob has a lot of it, Alfred might as well, and practice.

Bob was a secret all along, and the only time Harry asked him for dark / forbidden knowledge, he got so spooked that he ordered Bob to spin off Evil Bob so it would never happen again.

What has changed is he very well might be able to ask Lara for access to the Raith library. That might well have some dirty tricks he could use against a Denarian.

Plus, besides asking Sanya and Michael, Forthill might have something on Namshiel personally.

[Mira]

Bob was a secret all along, and the only time Harry asked him for dark / forbidden knowledge, he got so spooked that he ordered Bob to spin off Evil Bob so it would never happen again.

What has changed is he very well might be able to ask Lara for access to the Raith library. That might well have some dirty tricks he could use against a Denarian.

Plus, besides asking Sanya and Michael, Forthill might have something on Namshiel personally.

Yes, Bob was a secret, but that is because the Council wanted to squish him.  The forbidden knowledge Harry asked for was knowledge Bob gained while in the service of Kemmler.  I don't think Harry ordered Bob to spin off Evil Bob as he ordered him to forget or block and further dark knowledge gain while in the employ of Kemmler.  This was a mistake because Harry didn't understand exactly what Bob was or how damaging and difficult this would be for him.  However having said that Bob hasn't blocked any other knowledge and wouldn't opposed to telling Harry what he knew on a variety of subjects. 

Dirty tricks?  What do you mean by that?  If you mean black magic, not good for Harry.  Also I'm not sure that White Court Vamps know all that much about Denarians in the first place.  Yes, one of his best bets is to quiz the Holy Knights, especially Michael.  I am not sure that Father Forthill can or would answer any of Harry's questions.

[Snark Knight]

Dirty tricks?  What do you mean by that?  If you mean black magic, not good for Harry.  Also I'm not sure that White Court Vamps know all that much about Denarians in the first place.

They may not, but it never hurts to see. Maybe they have something that's effective against angels ... that would be considered dark, but it's only illegal as far as the Council is concerned if it hurts Marcone the host as well.

(Plus, do Denarians actually count as human for first law purposes? Harry's tried lethal force a few times with no reservations that it would be worth a beheading if he actually succeeded)

[Arjan]

  But Marcone isn't totally up to speed either.  Hary very much does respect the potential now that he has the coin, and of course what a Fallen Angel knows and can do.. But Marcone made mistakes, that is what Harry was taunting him about.  Now that he is kicked out of the Council, Harry has no restraints on what knowledge he can acquire now..  The only limitation is getting it, and I bet Bob has a lot of it, Alfred might as well, and practice.

I think he is still bound to the seven laws in his own mind.

[Mira]

I think he is still bound to the seven laws in his own mind.

I agree with that, however is teleportation something that is against the Seven Laws?  I think there is a lot that Harry can learn and there is nothing save the Senior Council and access that is keeping him from learning it.

(Plus, do Denarians actually count as human for first law purposes? Harry's tried lethal force a few times with no reservations that it would be worth a beheading if he actually succeeded)

The Fallen Angel do not, however their hosts are very human, one could argue more human than the Turtlenecks.

[Arjan]

I agree with that, however is teleportation something that is against the Seven Laws?  I think there is a lot that Harry can learn and there is nothing save the Senior Council and access that is keeping him from learning it.

The council never stopped him from looking for knowledge in other places, they just closed parts of their library from him.

The Fallen Angel do not, however their hosts are very human, one could argue more human than the Turtlenecks.

That is how the knights look at it but the council but the line between human and non human is somewhat vague and the council tends to draw it differently, sometimes depending who does the killing.

[forumghost]

I agree with that, however is teleportation something that is against the Seven Laws?  I think there is a lot that Harry can learn and there is nothing save the Senior Council and access that is keeping him from learning it.

I mean according to Jim Harry is about a Century away from teleportation at the earliest.

Thorn boy has accelerated Marcone so far past Harry that it's kind a joke.

[Mira]

I mean according to Jim Harry is about a Century away from teleportation at the earliest.

Thorn boy has accelerated Marcone so far past Harry that it's kind a joke.

I wouldn't give up on Harry yet.. There are other skills besides teleportation.

[TheCuriousFan]

I mean according to Jim Harry is about a Century away from teleportation at the earliest.

Thorn boy has accelerated Marcone so far past Harry that it's kind a joke.

Or just being a case of him not learning it yet but being at the right level for him as said by another interview a day or two apart. Consistency? What's that? 

I wouldn't give up on Harry yet.. There are other skills besides teleportation.

And Marcone has most of them.

[vincentric]

And Marcone has most of them.

Why does everyone assume that Marcone has more skills than Harry? Yes. Namshiel has been giving him crash courses but so far he's only shown two skills that Harry couldn't duplicate, teleportation over short range between two points and the ability to reshape stone.

Marcone has no shield bracelet, no staff and no blasting rods. He has some enchanted muskets. He has access to knowledge but not the power and aptitude to do everything. Marcone will have some new tricks when next he fights, but if Harry puts in some work, so will he. He has Winter and Soulfire to counter Marcone's Hellfire and just flat out more magical juice than Marcone can muster. Plus Harry has the Spear, Shroud and Crown of Thorns in his arsenal. If Marcone can't beat Harry with an early strike or outmaneuver him, Harry will overpower him

[TheCuriousFan]

Why does everyone assume that Marcone has more skills than Harry? Yes. Namshiel has been giving him crash courses but so far he's only shown two skills that Harry couldn't duplicate, teleportation over short range between two points and the ability to reshape stone.

Marcone has no shield bracelet, no staff and no blasting rods. He has some enchanted muskets. He has access to knowledge but not the power and aptitude to do everything. Marcone will have some new tricks when next he fights, but if Harry puts in some work, so will he. He has Winter and Soulfire to counter Marcone's Hellfire and just flat out more magical juice than Marcone can muster. Plus Harry has the Spear, Shroud and Crown of Thorns in his arsenal. If Marcone can't beat Harry with an early strike or outmaneuver him, Harry will overpower him

Because Marcone was just casually flinging up shields that could tank Ethniu, he's suddenly got way more guns than Sigrun could previously make, he could obscure Ethniu's vision and he could veil on top of the aforementioned teleportation and disintegration tricks. Any assumption that he's a one trick pony feels unlikely at best.

[forumghost]

Also because Harry is, in fact, a garbage-tier Wizard. He's got the talent for sure, but he's never bothered to develop it in any meaningful sense, instead relying on his big gas tank as a crutch.

Elaine (Half-trained Wizard) is stated to have more skill then him, Carlos (several years his Jr) has more skill then him. His apprentice (who he trained) has more skill then him.

Harry has spent the last decade or so dicking around while everone else caught up to and then surpassed him in skill.

He's like, the Wizard equivalent of "Peaked in High-School" these days.

[Arjan]

Excepts when he wants to and really puts his mind to it.

[Mira]

Excepts when he wants to and really puts his mind to it.

Exactly, he made vast improvements because he had to teach Molly.  We don't know how long Marcone has had the coin, but apparently he never knew of or if he did know, take advantage of
the ancient runes in the walls of what was his castle..  All this says that Marcone isn't studying his new craft either or at all.  He is merely allowing himself to be a sock puppet for Namshiel.  This is where the problems will come from for him.

[K.L.O.E.]

Exactly, he made vast improvements because he had to teach Molly.  We don't know how long Marcone has had the coin, but apparently he never knew of or if he did know, take advantage of
the ancient runes in the walls of what was his castle..  All this says that Marcone isn't studying his new craft either or at all.  He is merely allowing himself to be a sock puppet for Namshiel.  This is where the problems will come from for him.

I think Harry would have missed the Runes too if he wasn't the Warden and if Bob hadn't helped Harry turn the Island's defenses on. It's also possible the Namshiel couldn't interact profitably with the Runes so he didn't point them out?