It didn't make sense to me (Harry/Starborn/created)

[groinkick]

It's been hinted by Drakul, Mab, and others that Harry was created as a weapon.  So his being born was not by accident but by design.  The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if he was created, and he is important (to someone, somewhere), the hasn't been taken very good care of.  I mean from the sound of it he is some sort of super commodity.  His life has been in constant danger, why would someone go to the trouble to having him created, only to discard him???

I don't know but it has me wondering if maybe the Council has a "golden boy" (or girl) who they think is a saint (not literally), and that Harry is the pain they wish had never been created....  So this golden child is being pampered, and trained for the purpose of the Stars and Stones, and will ultimately be the real danger while Harry the hellion will be the hero..

[Mira]

It's been hinted by Drakul, Mab, and others that Harry was created as a weapon.  So his being born was not by accident but by design.  The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if he was created, and he is important (to someone, somewhere), the hasn't been taken very good care of.  I mean from the sound of it he is some sort of super commodity.  His life has been in constant danger, why would someone go to the trouble to having him created, only to discard him???

I don't know but it has me wondering if maybe the Council has a "golden boy" (or girl) who they think is a saint (not literally), and that Harry is the pain they wish had never been created....  So this golden child is being pampered, and trained for the purpose of the Stars and Stones, and will ultimately be the real danger while Harry the hellion will be the hero..

Well, he was meant to be a weapon, and he is that, however after Margaret met Malcolm, her outlook changed and she threw them all a real curve ball.  Now it is possible that your "golden child" is Elaine..  Justin raised her to be an enforcer as well, supposedly successfully enthralls her, though there are hints from Summer Knight and Harry's own flashbacks that she may have mostly played along and wasn't enthralled at all.  After Harry kills Justin, he is left holding the bag to be captured by the Wardens, while she runs off to hide in the Summer Court.  She hides out in the Summer Court, maybe, maybe not infecting Aurora, leaving Harry thinking he killed her too.  She does help him at the end of Summer Knight and Aurora is killed. Then she goes under the radar, gets a college degree and messes with the Paranet a little.. My point? She never seems to pay a price for anything, the Wardens never have caught on to her, Titania hasn't realized that Elaine was of some help to Harry in the killing of her beloved daughter... Someone is supporting her and protecting her, when last we saw her she seemed to be living a comfortable life...  She could be your golden Child, hiding in plain sight.

[Griffyn612]

I could see the Council arranging for Elaine, only to be surprised their choice of mentor for her was really a bad guy, and she's now "dead" and they're grudgingly stuck with Harry instead. She's the one they wanted, but they don't know she's alive, and they don't want to *not* have one, and Young Harry is their only option.

I could also see them looking for other options of that age, and testing everyone. And maybe Langtry found one, and has them squirreled away in secret. But even then they'd keep Harry as the expendable, visible tool that others might target thinking he's their only ace.

[Mira]

I could see the Council arranging for Elaine, only to be surprised their choice of mentor for her was really a bad guy, and she's now "dead" and they're grudgingly stuck with Harry instead. She's the one they wanted, but they don't know she's alive, and they don't want to *not* have one, and Young Harry is their only option.

I could also see them looking for other options of that age, and testing everyone. And maybe Langtry found one, and has them squirreled away in secret. But even then they'd keep Harry as the expendable, visible tool that others might target thinking he's their only ace.

Or the made the arrangements all along for her to go off to the Summer Court?   How soon did they put that hood over Harry's head?  How quick were they to get there after the event?  What is Justin
was always supposed to mentor both Harry and Elaine, he was a retired Warden after all, the kicker there is Justin got infested at some point, instead of raising a golden child for the Council, he was raising a ringer for Nemeses..  Margaret foiled that one when she chose Harry's father, however she couldn't have foreseen Malcolm's murder. 

[bigdangmoose]

It's been hinted by Drakul, Mab, and others that Harry was created as a weapon.  So his being born was not by accident but by design.  The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that if he was created, and he is important (to someone, somewhere), the hasn't been taken very good care of.  I mean from the sound of it he is some sort of super commodity.  His life has been in constant danger, why would someone go to the trouble to having him created, only to discard him???

I don't know but it has me wondering if maybe the Council has a "golden boy" (or girl) who they think is a saint (not literally), and that Harry is the pain they wish had never been created....  So this golden child is being pampered, and trained for the purpose of the Stars and Stones, and will ultimately be the real danger while Harry the hellion will be the hero..

I pointed out in my thread the road so far that all of this for Harry was possibly started by Lord Raith. He was the one with the knowledge,  because of his library and experiencing it at least twice before, to know how to create a Starborn. My guess is that Elaine was a happy possible coincidence that Justin found with the information that he got with his meetings with Lord Raith and Margaret.

[Yuillegan]

Another possibility is that part of the point is pressure testing. Perhaps it's a Highlander-type situation.

Maybe you don't want ANY old star born. You want the right one. The toughest one. The one who has the will.

Many times in the series it appears Harry is being tested, prepared, tempered. His whole interactions with the Mothers, with He Who Walks Behind, even Uriel (from a very different angle) suggest they are trying to teach Harry and test him out. Interestingly, all similar level beings. But even small interactions with mysterious figures like Cowl.

I think there is a very good reason that while there were forty thousand originally (in this cycle) there are very few left.

[groinkick]

Here is what seems to be contradictory to me from Drakul ""I would tell you to ask of your own White Council what they aren't telling you, what they bred you for, and what they expect you to do"

This just doesn't seem correct...  Maggie was considered crazy by the Council, I don't see the Council trusting her with something like this, and yet based on what Drakul said, it sounds like the White Council was behind Harry being born.

Again if the Council was behind Dresden being created, why oh why would they treat him so horribly, pushing him away instead of working with him?  Trying to bring him into the Council as an ally instead of pushing him away as an adversary since the beginning...

Anyone have any ideas?  Maybe I'm not connecting the dots correctly.

[bigdangmoose]

Breeding isn't just about birth. It's also about training. The WCouncil has pushed him all his magical life. Justin was still part of it till his death. So even though, as I said before, Lord Raith may have got the ball rolling on Harry's birth, after Margaret's death, when Justin picked him up, he was being trained by the Council.

[groinkick]

Breeding isn't just about birth. It's also about training. The WCouncil has pushed him all his magical life. Justin was still part of it till his death. So even though, as I said before, Lord Raith may have got the ball rolling on Harry's birth, after Margaret's death, when Justin picked him up, he was being trained by the Council.

Nearly having his head chopped off, being bullied, being nearly kicked out, and then then ultimately kicked out doesn't really seem like they are training, or preparing him...  Unless their ultimate goal is for him to destroy them, they don't seem to have done much with him other than piss him off.

[BrainFireBob]

Here is what seems to be contradictory to me from Drakul ""I would tell you to ask of your own White Council what they aren't telling you, what they bred you for, and what they expect you to do"

This just doesn't seem correct...  Maggie was considered crazy by the Council, I don't see the Council trusting her with something like this, and yet based on what Drakul said, it sounds like the White Council was behind Harry being born.

Again if the Council was behind Dresden being created, why oh why would they treat him so horribly, pushing him away instead of working with him?  Trying to bring him into the Council as an ally instead of pushing him away as an adversary since the beginning...

Anyone have any ideas?  Maybe I'm not connecting the dots correctly.

You want to guarantee a wizard talent starborn.

Talent is one part genetic and one part proximity- only Molly was born with a gift from proximity to Charity's recently active gift.

If you have an active female wizard actively using her gift during pregnancy, would seem to be "best case" in that scenario- power to spark power with a genetic predisposition requirement.

That's part 1- an active wizardess of childbearing age.

Part 2: If the window is only proximally predictable, but the moment is detectable, you need to induce labor of an at-term child.

That means you have two options: predict the next starborn event to within 1 month- or be able to manipulate the objective time duration of your pregnancy. Is that possible? With sophisticated use of Nevernever "fast time"/"slow time" zones, you can dilate or compress a pregnancy as much as needed.

So your pregnant wizardness, still young enough for childbearing, needs to be a master at finding Ways and moving between them. And ruthless enough to manipulate her unborn children thst way.

You had one candidate they could work through, possibly in exchange for a pardon.

And she made some kind of deal with the Leanansidhe

[Mira]

This just doesn't seem correct...  Maggie was considered crazy by the Council, I don't see the Council trusting her with something like this, and yet based on what Drakul said, it sounds like the White Council was behind Harry being born.

I doubt that they were behind Harry being born, but they were behind someone they could control being born.  Margaret, knew of their breeding program, thought it was bunk and didn't agree with it at all.  Remember what Lash told Harry in White Night, don't have time to look up the exact quote, but when she met Malcolm, her attitude changed, but she decided to produce a star child and Malcolm went along with the idea.  Chauncy also told Harry that Margaret changed and they could no longer get her for their own.  You know the old expression, "fighting fire, with fire"?  Maybe that is what the Council was hoping for, but it isn't exactly what they got in Harry, and every time they see him they see Margaret flipping the bird at them.

[Yuillegan]

Breeding isn't just about birth. It's also about training. The WCouncil has pushed him all his magical life. Justin was still part of it till his death. So even though, as I said before, Lord Raith may have got the ball rolling on Harry's birth, after Margaret's death, when Justin picked him up, he was being trained by the Council.

Agreed, glad you said it as I was going to.

Here is what seems to be contradictory to me from Drakul ""I would tell you to ask of your own White Council what they aren't telling you, what they bred you for, and what they expect you to do"

This just doesn't seem correct...  Maggie was considered crazy by the Council, I don't see the Council trusting her with something like this, and yet based on what Drakul said, it sounds like the White Council was behind Harry being born.

Again if the Council was behind Dresden being created, why oh why would they treat him so horribly, pushing him away instead of working with him?  Trying to bring him into the Council as an ally instead of pushing him away as an adversary since the beginning...

Anyone have any ideas?  Maybe I'm not connecting the dots correctly.

Don't forget, Morgan revealed part of the reason everyone is so hard on him: they suspect him of being a creature of Nemesis/being corrupted by Justin/being a monster too terrible to let live.

Just because they wanted a starborn, just because they hoped to use him, doesn't mean that it didn't have enormous potential to backfire.

[Mira]

Just because they wanted a starborn, just because they hoped to use him, doesn't mean that it didn't have enormous potential to backfire.

Which it did because of Margaret... Then again we don't know the full skinny on Elaine, I still think someone is protecting her and supporting her, for their own purposes.

[Griffyn612]

Which it did because of Margaret... Then again we don't know the full skinny on Elaine, I still think someone is protecting her and supporting her, for their own purposes.

Yeah, Cowl is protecting Kumori Elaine. 

[groinkick]

Yeah, Cowl is protecting Kumori Elaine. 

Lets say Justin really is dead (I suspect he's a BCV so he is both DED and still a threat), who would Elaine be working with do you think?  The only clue I think they gave about Cowl was that his wrists were scarred up.