that part has been confirmed per Woj. I factored in seracks grand unification theory(need to reread that soon)with it a long time ago. Originally thought Odin was Thor/Hercules taken on Zeus's mantle, but Thor apparently exists elsewhere in the DF. Him being a fraction of what he used to be would could be the connection though.
Has it? Are you referring to that WOJ about how the beings themselves don't change, just our understanding of who and what they are? Or some other WOJ. Because the first one isn't really evidence that Z=O. Not saying that Odin and Zeus are not the same being but I haven't yet seen a lot of hard evidence.
No, they didn't lose, as planned, Odin's spear blew up in her face and Lara kicked the Eye from her head, she limped off, weakened and set up for Harry to finish the job... I call that a win for the team. A loss would have been not succeeding in getting the Eye out of her head and thus Harry not able to ship her off to Demonreach, even with Marcone/Namshiel's help.
I think I can see our point of contention. The overall outcome was that Ethniu was defeated and they contributed to it heavily, so therefore they won in that sense. What I am saying is that in a purely just those three gods vs Ethniu way, a microcosm of the battle, something like a WWE fight - they lost. They got the win because they had a trump card in an extra man hidden away armed with an insanely powerful set of weapons perfect for bringing down such a being. But it would be like if Ali was fighting Williams and knocks Williams out, and then some friend of Williams enters the ring and hit Ali over the head with a hammer. Would you say Williams one the fight, or his friend? Just for reference, Ali KO'd Williams in the third round and it was like watching an amateur get in the ring with a pro. It was brutal. There's probably better fights to illustrate the match-up between Ethniu and the gods, but you get the idea.
At best it's a pyrrhic victory for Odin, Titania, and the Erlking. And don't forget, it only took out Ethniu's big gun temporarily. She gets it back briefly before Harry manages to bind her, and it's mostly because Marcone forces her to play whack-a-mole and expend her shots.
Well, Odin had a lot to do with that.. You're right, I was speaking metaphorically.
That didn't happen by accident, it wasn't a desperate move from a loser, it was planned. The only way to get the Spear into position so it could take out the Eye was to trick Ethniu into thinking she had defeated Odin and taking the Spear for herself. She may have had it in her hand, but Odin had absolute control over it, all he had to do was say the word, and it did it's job.
So why didn't Odin just stab her when he had the Spear during the first fight he had with her? I mean, it clearly already had the ability...surely it's more powerful in the hands of it's rightful wielder? I fail to see any element of planning. It seemed more like a fail-safe move. Odin's not a loser, but he did lose a fight. Happens to plenty of great winners. But the best ones plan for that and have contingencies in place, just like Odin did. Where is the evidence from the text that Odin planned for her to pick up the Spear? It's conjecture otherwise.
I also think it is very unlikely that Odin and the other planned to loose. But I do think it is very likely that he considered the risk of loosing and planned for mitigating the results of it.
The risk was quite high, Ethniu could have killed them with the eye when it was done recharging.
I think it is impossible to guess what Ethnius power level would be without the armor, so I will only consider it with the armor.
I don't think that god cowl would have been able to beat Odin, Titania (at mid summer no less) and the Erlking at once. I don't even think he would have had a good chance. So * would say he would be personally weaker.
But naturally a smart bad guy is often more dangerous than a powerful one outside of a fight.
But of god cowl had tried to do something similar to what Ethniu did the leaders of the accorded nations would have just killed him. As far as I could tell the main reason they were concerned with ganging up on Ethniu was that she would kill them with the eye. So someone had to take the first shot(s).
Pretty much agree with all this. Don't forget none of them could harm her; only the Knights of the Sword, Marcone (with Namshiel), Harry (with the Spear of Destiny AND his Demonreach connection), and Vadderung/Odin's spear Gungnir had that power. Which suggest Vadderung does have enough divine power, or access to such power, via his spear. Why he lied about it I don't know. Perhaps he didn't want everyone to see his trump card. Perhaps it's another Soulfire thing. We know he has that after all. In fact, I'd bet it was exactly that.
I don't entirely agree with this. We don't really know Ethniu's actual power level in comparison to Mab. We know what she can do with a super weapon, and nearly indestructible armor, but not what she alone can do. Look at a Knight of the Cross... With a Sword they can slay just about anything. Without it they are just normal people who don't stand much of a chance against a run of the mill vampire.
Ethniu is obviously powerful, but I'm still not convinced she's above Mab. She was no longer in power for a reason. She'd been hiding away for a reason. She returned for a reason. My guess is she finally obtained the weapon, and armor she needed, and an army to match.
If she didn't have the armor, I suspect she'd have been stomped by Titania, Erlking, and Odin. Mab took the full on blast from the Eye that Jim said could kill anything. She took it and survived. Another shot would have finished her, but it goes to show her level of strength. I also imagine that if Mab had the armor, and the Eye, she'd be nearly unbeatable.
Jim gave a short list of people who could stand with Mab (in her weakest state), and it was pretty short. I'd imagine with the same armor, and a super weapon that could kill anything, that list would be much shorter.
Mab didn't necessarily beat the Eye through brute strength. We don't know how she did it. Dresden couldn't even fathom it. Not one person even attempted a direct block on the field. There are clearly other ways to do such things. Mab isn't like Dresden. She isn't a straight forward, fair-fight, test my strength versus your strength type of person. She out-thinks people. She plans ahead obsessively. She make deals and bargain for knowledge and power. Likely she knew about this moment long before it occurred and planned accordingly.
I also don't think Mab even could wield such weapons as the Eye or wear the armour. But that's another discussion. Also, that list about who could beat Mab was given in 2009. It's a little outdated, can anyone say for certain (other than Jim) that Ethniu was planned even as far as back then? I'd say that's doubtful.
I'll share a few points on Ethniu and perhaps you'll see what I mean.
This is the blurb of Battle Ground. I have bolded the main point.
Harry has faced terrible odds before. He has a long history of fighting enemies above his weight class. The Red Court of vampires. The fallen angels of the Order of the Blackened Denarius. The Outsiders.
But this time it’s different. A being more powerful and dangerous on an order of magnitude beyond what the world has seen in a millennium is coming. And she’s bringing an army. The Last Titan has declared war on the city of Chicago, and has come to subjugate humanity, obliterating any who stand in her way.
Harry’s mission is simple but impossible: Save the city by killing a Titan. And the attempt will change Harry’s life, Chicago, and the mortal world forever.
Mab's been seen quite a bit in the last millennium. We are talking a different scale of being.
Remember, Ferrovax was afraid of Ethniu. He did what she told him to. Just think about that. No attempt to stop her or reason with her. I'd argue he was actually somewhat compelled by her Titan willpower. But even if you don't think that was implied in the scene, think about this quote:
#228 “Is the Eldest gruff ever going to make another appearance? And in a match of Him and Lea vs Ferrovax, who would you bet on?”
Ferrovax would crush them both, if they had time to get ready, got to pick the time and place, and pulled out every resource at their disposal. It would be brief and brutal, like watching Tyson in his prime, when the fights were all 30 seconds long, except replacing his opponent with a 15 year old blind girl.
There’s just no comparison, there. Lea and Elder gruff are deadly beings. But Ferrovax is a force of nature. MAB would be loathe to take on Ferro, at least head-on.
Ferrovax is bigger and badder than Mab. And even he wasn't prepared to tell Ethniu to play nice or leave them alone. Now you might argue that was because he didn't want to crush Chicago/break reality with his fight with her. But even if he is closer to Ethniu's level, both of them are way higher than Mab. It wasn't like Ferrovax was the biggest being in the peace talks once Ethniu showed up. Beyond that, Ferrovax still did what Ethniu told him to do. That's significant.
Think about her effect on reality. When Dresden first sees her he encounters "energy unlike any I had sensed before". Her mere presence causes reality to struggle. Most of the mortals and some of the supernaturals automatically started moaning as their minds struggle to deal with her.
Now a conversation in the early part of Battle Ground between Ebenezar and Harry.
"Ethniu is a Titan, boy," he said. "Can you imagine trying to bind Mab?"
I shuddered.
"Well, she's an order of magnitude beyond that in power and will," Ebenezar said.
An order of magnitude beyond that [Mab] in power and will. How much more evidence do you really need?
