Author Topic: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?  (Read 7248 times)

Offline groinkick

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Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« on: May 22, 2021, 05:09:19 AM »
Corner hounds number 13
Huntsman number 13


Jim said that Nemesis can only be in a certain number of places at once...  Do you think 13 is the number, or is it a different number?
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2021, 04:09:52 PM »
Possibly. Other potential number to me include 3, 4, 7, all for somewhat obvious connections to belief and superstition.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2021, 04:15:47 PM »
3 and 7 are simply too holy for Nemesis. 13 is more likely.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2021, 06:43:27 PM »
3 and 7 are simply too holy for Nemesis. 13 is more likely.

I agree, but dang that makes things more complicated.  The lower the number the easier it is to figure out who's being controlled...  13 could meant that a great deal of Harry's roster is under control.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2021, 07:40:11 PM »
I agree, but dang that makes things more complicated.  The lower the number the easier it is to figure out who's being controlled...  13 could meant that a great deal of Harry's roster is under control.
But Harry is not the only one Nemesis is following. Maybe there are instances in the fomor court and in Edinburgh and other places.

Also 13 is the maximum number. If it works like the monkey demon more instances means each instance is weaker.
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Offline seanham

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 08:37:49 PM »
It might also be the some of the 13 are just temporary hosts. Meaning that Nemesis needs them to make one or two decisions and then leaves them.

Offline Xamion

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 06:03:39 AM »
I believe the intent is more along the way of a security camera system, where you can have as many cameras as you want, but you are limited by the amount of screens and terminals at your disposal, to watch and operate them live.
So I think there can be an unlimited amount of infected individuals, but Nemesis can actively control or manifest through only 13 or so of them at a given time.
I would also argue that this limit is per universe/dimension/timeline as well, because otherwise having such a tiny limit would practically make Nemesis impotent, since we know there are hundreds of thousands of universes if not millions or more, due to every "major" decision from a ("important?") mortal creating a separate one.

Offline Sattymike

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2021, 01:25:54 PM »
Nemesis has been in who that we know of so far: going off memory - there could be a bunch of significant individuals under the influence if the cap is as high as 13.
 
Cowl (still)
Probably Kumori
Lea (no longer, although maybe some residual presence)
Aurora (deceased)
Peabody (deceased)
Maybe Vittorio Malvora (deceased)
Maeve (deceased)
Cat Sith (still)
Justine (still)
Maybe Denton (deceased)
Probably Justin (deceased)

Am I missing people?  Was thinking maybe Thorned Namshiel when he ran on Arctis Tor based on Nicodemus reaction (that host is now deceased, so guess it doesn’t matter).  Some other denarians may be infected based on his comment to Harry in the aquarium.

Offline Mira

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2021, 01:27:48 PM »
It might also be the some of the 13 are just temporary hosts. Meaning that Nemesis needs them to make one or two decisions and then leaves them.

That makes sense, or goes dormant for a time in a host till it's needed again.  That would make it extremely hard to detect, because the host would be acting normally most of the time.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2021, 05:12:55 PM »
But if it works like the monkey demon in blood rites spreading thin means each instance wil be weaker.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2021, 07:15:50 PM »
But if it works like the monkey demon in blood rites spreading thin means each instance wil be weaker.

Not if it goes dormant, switch off, no energy expelled... Go to the next host, switch on, plenty of energy.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2021, 12:56:31 AM »
I'm inclined to think it's three because, as a Walker, there's already an association with the number, but also because, from a plot/writing standpoint, if Harry is to ever have an actual chance of banishing or trapping him, it'll have to be realistically manageable.

If it's thirteen, it'll never happen. It'd take an entire series to have him hunt down that many horcruxes hosts in a satisfactory manner. Whereas if it's three, and he traps one, and a second is discovered, the third would likely show up to free the others, or run and hide on the other side of the world.

Of course, if he's not going to beat Nemesis, then it can be anything. But for the suspense, a limitation works better.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2021, 06:43:16 AM »
I'm inclined to think it's three because, as a Walker, there's already an association with the number, but also because, from a plot/writing standpoint, if Harry is to ever have an actual chance of banishing or trapping him, it'll have to be realistically manageable.

If it's thirteen, it'll never happen. It'd take an entire series to have him hunt down that many horcruxes hosts in a satisfactory manner. Whereas if it's three, and he traps one, and a second is discovered, the third would likely show up to free the others, or run and hide on the other side of the world.

Of course, if he's not going to beat Nemesis, then it can be anything. But for the suspense, a limitation works better.
Depends on how it infests hosts, I would think.

I consider the banishment of the Cornerhounds as a pretty big hint on how to stop Nemesis. You banish/trap one and you get the whole lot.

I always thought there was a limit because otherwise why wouldn't it just infest everyone? The threat would be enormous and everyone would have lost by now.

Thirteen seems most likely based on that number's significance in the series, and the fact that the pack of Cornerhounds numbered at thirteen.
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Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2021, 12:11:43 PM »
Probably needs it's own thread, but.. what's the quantifiable different between what Fearbringer does and what Nemesis does? Are other walkers also multifaceted beings or just nemesis? And... Has anyone considered the three beer bottles touching has nothing to do with the number of walkers, but the number of manifestations available? Three touching bottles is something I think is oftentimes skimmed over for the greater theoretics.(and of course, the vast assumption it means three walkers are coming, I've not seen challenged by anyone but me. That's the ambiguity of not actually saying anything..) Not three bottles standing together, three touching, as though intimately entwined somehow, interconnected.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Nemesis can only be in 13 places at once?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2021, 09:34:56 PM »
Depends on how it infests hosts, I would think.

I consider the banishment of the Cornerhounds as a pretty big hint on how to stop Nemesis. You banish/trap one and you get the whole lot.

I always thought there was a limit because otherwise why wouldn't it just infest everyone? The threat would be enormous and everyone would have lost by now.

Thirteen seems most likely based on that number's significance in the series, and the fact that the pack of Cornerhounds numbered at thirteen.
Thirteen is, to me, the second most likely number, and it could very well be correct. But as for finding one host and banishing Beside completely with just one seems... Optimistic? Certainly too easy for Harry, to say the least. And too easy for no-one to have managed it in all the years the Sidhe and Co. have been fighting "Nemesis". But who's to say it's even a possibility?

Probably needs it's own thread, but.. what's the quantifiable different between what Fearbringer does and what Nemesis does? Are other walkers also multifaceted beings or just nemesis? And... Has anyone considered the three beer bottles touching has nothing to do with the number of walkers, but the number of manifestations available? Three touching bottles is something I think is oftentimes skimmed over for the greater theoretics.(and of course, the vast assumption it means three walkers are coming, I've not seen challenged by anyone but me. That's the ambiguity of not actually saying anything..) Not three bottles standing together, three touching, as though intimately entwined somehow, interconnected.
I want to say it's been confirmed by WoJ, or stated in a way that seemed to confirm, there are three Walkers. And there might have been something about them being three parts of a whole, similar to what you're describing. But it's been too long for me to remember if the was just speculation or theory.

As for roles, I think we've seen what each is good at, and their limitations.

Before is leading the charge (from the Fore-front  ;D) and willing to fight, but not all that great at it. He can debuff, and probably buff his own team, but he wasn't all that impressive in the bar fight until he whammied.

Beside is the spymaster who can manipulate the outcome of battles from the Side-lines (I crack myself up  ;D) but he's even worse as a combatant.
He's struggled to control his hosts efficiently multiple times (Lea defied him, and he couldn't use Sith to his fullest combat capabilities).

Behind is the most potent, as stated in the books, because he's not stuck beHind (okay that one wasn't as good) some weak or resistant host. He's the assassin in the group that gets physical, but also got banished by a (starborn) kid because he underestimated his enemy.

So, in summary, there's the Cult Leader (Before), the Mastermind (Beside), and the Soldier/Assassin (Behind).