Summer Knight foreshadowing

[EBRIEN]

Hey All---I've been listening to Summer Knight again. In chapter 17, Harry brings Elaine to the Summer Court for help. While talking to Harry, Aurora refers to him as dangerous and says, "From the beginning you were meant to be a destroyer." I suspect many of you reread and caught this already, but I thought this was cool with all the Starborn chatter popping up with Peace Talks and Battleground. I'm finding it fun to reread/relisten to the series and notice things that weren't really as significant at the time.

What have you noticed?

Anyway--This isn't necessarily in need of responses, but I felt the need to share.

Thanks for indulging me.

Cheers----Brien

[morriswalters]

It pops up in the books a couple of times.  Including one reference where Mother Winter describes herself as such in Summer Knight.

[Mira]

It pops up in the books a couple of times.  Including one reference where Mother Winter describes herself as such in Summer Knight.

So the question becomes, is this what a star born is supposed to be, or is it what those in the know want to push young Harry towards for their own ends?  One person's destroyer is another's savior..

[Arjan]

He is our hero so of course he is going to be the saviour but to introduce tension into the story there will be always the great danger of falling and becoming a destroyer.

[Mira]

He is our hero so of course he is going to be the saviour but to introduce tension into the story there will be always the great danger of falling and becoming a destroyer.

But my point is, those in power want to use him for their own ends... This is why they are keeping all the facts from him, or one of the reasons, they want to mold him... And our dear boy, Harry isn't the kind of guy that molds well.

[Arjan]

The reason why the white council is far more irritating than Mab lately.

[EBRIEN]

The reason why the white council is far more irritating than Mab lately.

I believe that Mab gets it. In Skin Game, she tells him to "do what you do" when Nic double crosses the group. I think she realizes that the best way to get Dresden to where he needs to be is by encouraging rather than impeding. He's obstinate enough to be a barrier to her if she requests something that is counter to who he is so she lets his character drive his decisions. (Even if she manipulates the board from time-to-time.)

[Mira]

I believe that Mab gets it. In Skin Game, she tells him to "do what you do" when Nic double crosses the group. I think she realizes that the best way to get Dresden to where he needs to be is by encouraging rather than impeding. He's obstinate enough to be a barrier to her if she requests something that is counter to who he is so she lets his character drive his decisions. (Even if she manipulates the board from time-to-time.)

  I think Mab is coming to understand Harry a bit better, I don't think she did before, for all her talk about "at last a Knight etc.."  With that understanding, respect..  However I think she is making a big mistake pushing the Lara thing with him.  Harry understands alliances on a political level, and he cannot ignore the sexual attraction, but Mab pushed this at a time when he was most vulnerable.  This may sound sexist, but it is my opinion that men handle loss worse than women do.  They are more apt after a happy relationship's sudden loss to jump quickly back into another relationship. Often it works out but quite often it doesn't for a number of reasons.  I think that is why Mab pushed this now, Harry was happy with Murphy, he is vulnerable.

[KurtinStGeorge]

  I think Mab is coming to understand Harry a bit better, I don't think she did before, for all her talk about "at last a Knight etc.."  With that understanding, respect..  However I think she is making a big mistake pushing the Lara thing with him.  Harry understands alliances on a political level, and he cannot ignore the sexual attraction, but Mab pushed this at a time when he was most vulnerable.  This may sound sexist, but it is my opinion that men handle loss worse than women do.  They are more apt after a happy relationship's sudden loss to jump quickly back into another relationship. Often it works out but quite often it doesn't for a number of reasons.  I think that is why Mab pushed this now, Harry was happy with Murphy, he is vulnerable.

The thing is, Harry's relationship with Murphy was; in many ways, so dysfunctional, and was so for a very long period of time.  At first they barely acknowledge that they're attracted to each other.  Then they decide there are rational explanations why they shouldn't get involved, though Murphy thinks of specific reason first.  Neither one of them want a relationship to be casual; though later on Murphy seems fine with a casual relationship with Kinkade.  It just went on and on.  Thomas was stupefied by their behavior and rationalizations.  When a vampire; or more specifically an incubus, sees that your love life is a disaster and wants to give you dating advice, you really have a problem.  When they finally committed to a relationship, it lasted just a few months before Murphy bought the farm.  So, I'm not sure conventional wisdom applies here.

More to the point; when it comes to Lara Raith, while it's obvious that Harry is attracted to her, I don't think he could ever see her as a romantic partner.  They might make a good team together; at least for a while, especially when it comes to scheming and dealing with dangerous adversaries.  But I don't see how Harry; or anyone remotely rational, could ever fall in love with Lara Raith.  It's totally lust at first sight, regardless of whether Lara is using her vampire mojo or not, and how could it be anything emotional deeper than that?


 

[morriswalters]

If he ever thought that fooling with a White Court vampire is rational he need look no further then his mother.  Dead at his birth at the hands of Daddy Raith.  I mean, Jim is showing you by proxy what Margaret's journey down the rabbit hole would have looked like.

[Yuillegan]

Hey All---I've been listening to Summer Knight again. In chapter 17, Harry brings Elaine to the Summer Court for help. While talking to Harry, Aurora refers to him as dangerous and says, "From the beginning you were meant to be a destroyer." I suspect many of you reread and caught this already, but I thought this was cool with all the Starborn chatter popping up with Peace Talks and Battleground. I'm finding it fun to reread/relisten to the series and notice things that weren't really as significant at the time.

What have you noticed?

Anyway--This isn't necessarily in need of responses, but I felt the need to share.

Thanks for indulging me.

Cheers----Brien

If you remember reading the Microfiction Journal which is a journal entry from Donald Morgan some time just before the events of Turn Coat (as in after he is framed for La Fortier's murder), Morgan actually names Harry as a "Destroyer" with emphasis on the capital letter. I believe that this is deliberate on Jim's part, and as I (and others) have guessed before, a Destroyer is some sort of terrible monster - somehow related to being a starborn perhaps and Nemesis.

Both Aurora and Donald seem to be under the impression this was why Harry was conceived, it's what Harry was born to be (potentially). But both of them ALSO allow for the possibility that Harry might not become a Destroyer. So it seems not to be something that is set in stone. 

[Mira]

If you remember reading the Microfiction Journal which is a journal entry from Donald Morgan some time just before the events of Turn Coat (as in after he is framed for La Fortier's murder), Morgan actually names Harry as a "Destroyer" with emphasis on the capital letter. I believe that this is deliberate on Jim's part, and as I (and others) have guessed before, a Destroyer is some sort of terrible monster - somehow related to being a starborn perhaps and Nemesis.

Destroyer doesn't have to be a terrible monster.  It sounds more like something out of The Book of Revelation, the end of the world, Judgement, Stars and Stones, Empty Night.. There are a bunch of angels running around doing terrible things under orders..  As a star born, Harry could be one of them.

[The_Sibelis]

You could also say, "from the beginning you were meant to be an agent of change" and it would still be accurate in the DF.. starborn and stars and stones will probably be a big change

[Mira]

The thing is, Harry's relationship with Murphy was; in many ways, so dysfunctional, and was so for a very long period of time.  At first they barely acknowledge that they're attracted to each other.  Then they decide there are rational explanations why they shouldn't get involved, though Murphy thinks of specific reason first.  Neither one of them want a relationship to be casual; though later on Murphy seems fine with a casual relationship with Kinkade.  It just went on and on.  Thomas was stupefied by their behavior and rationalizations.  When a vampire; or more specifically an incubus, sees that your love life is a disaster and wants to give you dating advice, you really have a problem.  When they finally committed to a relationship, it lasted just a few months before Murphy bought the farm.  So, I'm not sure conventional wisdom applies here.

That doesn't matter, all relationships have their ups and their downs, it is the perception of the survivor that counts.

[Yuillegan]

Destroyer doesn't have to be a terrible monster.  It sounds more like something out of The Book of Revelation, the end of the world, Judgement, Stars and Stones, Empty Night.. There are a bunch of angels running around doing terrible things under orders..  As a star born, Harry could be one of them.

True. But from context does it really sound like not a terrible monster. Morgan says "The thought of allowing a Destroyer to be birthed among us when I could have stopped it is too heavy to bear."

I have bolded the intention points. There is obviously the possibility of more than one Destroyer, that could be born amongst "us" (I think he means mortals in general) and that allowing that to happen would be a disaster. It clearly reads that Morgan is very concerned by that possibility. And every other character that has hinted at it (Aurora, Mab, He Who Walks Before, He Who Walks Behind, Mother Winter, Martha Liberty, Nicodemus, Drakul, Cowl, Vadderung, the Gatekeeper, even Ebenezar in a roundabout way) pretty much couched it in terms of being a danger or a weapon.

I don't believe Harry can use it for good entirely, he never gets that lucky. If he can help people with it I suspect it's mostly by directing himself at the bad guys. It mostly sounds like he is a walking nuke. And Morgan hints that there can be more than one...