Author Topic: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...  (Read 6603 times)

Offline Mira

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Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« on: April 28, 2021, 06:31:37 PM »


  Okay,this thought hit me while reading Groinkick's post about Marcone in the time traveling thread.
On one hand not sure if it is a deep enough thought to warrant it's own thread, but on the other it would have totally hijacked the other topic, so here goes.

I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and power corrupts even the already corrupted, but it is weird that Marcone would take up a coin.  The Denarians did a number on him on Demonreach back in Small Favor.. So much so that he and Mab planned and got revenge on Nic and company in Skin Game..  So now they kiss and make up?  Or are there going to be unforeseen consequences down the road?  At the moment Namhiel is glad to be back in business with a ruthless intelligent host, and Marcone was happy to save Chicago and getting more power, but who is using whom and what is the ultimate goal?

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2021, 06:45:44 PM »
I guess a lot of it depends on
Is Namshiel and Nick enemies?
Was Namshiel part of the attack on Artist Tor?

Did someone already conclude on those two?

Offline Arjan

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2021, 06:48:34 PM »
In the end if you keep the coin and not die on time the fallen will be using you. It is just a matter of time.

We know Nick and Namshiel worked together in the past. They might have worked against each other as well. That does hardly matter.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2021, 06:59:53 PM »

  Okay,this thought hit me while reading Groinkick's post about Marcone in the time traveling thread.
On one hand not sure if it is a deep enough thought to warrant it's own thread, but on the other it would have totally hijacked the other topic, so here goes.

I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and power corrupts even the already corrupted, but it is weird that Marcone would take up a coin.  The Denarians did a number on him on Demonreach back in Small Favor.. So much so that he and Mab planned and got revenge on Nic and company in Skin Game..  So now they kiss and make up?  Or are there going to be unforeseen consequences down the road?  At the moment Namhiel is glad to be back in business with a ruthless intelligent host, and Marcone was happy to save Chicago and getting more power, but who is using whom and what is the ultimate goal?

Pretty sure Marcone was using the Coin already at this point....  Crap now I have to start a separate subject

Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2021, 07:43:40 PM »
Pretty sure Marcone was using the Coin already at this point....  Crap now I have to start a separate subject

 :o LOL!!!   Marcone will do that, but you admit then?  It's weird..

Offline Arjan

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2021, 08:12:05 PM »
I have no idea when Marcone started to use Namshiel’s coin except of course somewhere between smal favor and battle ground.
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Offline BrainFireBob

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2021, 09:27:37 PM »

  Okay,this thought hit me while reading Groinkick's post about Marcone in the time traveling thread.
On one hand not sure if it is a deep enough thought to warrant it's own thread, but on the other it would have totally hijacked the other topic, so here goes.

I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and power corrupts even the already corrupted, but it is weird that Marcone would take up a coin.  The Denarians did a number on him on Demonreach back in Small Favor.. So much so that he and Mab planned and got revenge on Nic and company in Skin Game..  So now they kiss and make up?  Or are there going to be unforeseen consequences down the road?  At the moment Namhiel is glad to be back in business with a ruthless intelligent host, and Marcone was happy to save Chicago and getting more power, but who is using whom and what is the ultimate goal?

Namshiel also was not on good terms with Nic post Arctis Tor, so it may have been part of the bargain he and Marcone made.

Offline seanham

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2021, 09:59:39 PM »
We know that Nic and Anduriel work together as more of a symbiotic organism. This is different from many of the fallen, where it is a one-sided relationship. I think Marcone/Namshiel will be more on the symbiotic side. Marcone knows that Namshiel has the knowledge and power to get what he wants, and Namshiel knows that Marcone has the intelligence and resources to get stuff done. If both parties are happy, they could be a very dangerous combo (brains and strength), but if one is stronger than the other or if one is trying to remain in control, then they would be less effective but possibly more dangerous (just strength with no sense on how to regulate it).

Offline forumghost

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2021, 10:57:55 PM »
The weird part is that from what we know of Namshiel, jolly cooperation is not part of his usual MO.

In Small Favor, he was one of the Denarians that liked to dominate his hosts completely. And yet post-Battle Ground we find out that he's apparently just some Magic Nerd that is willing to play partners with Marcone and make jokes in the middle of a battle?

Offline Arjan

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2021, 11:53:08 PM »
We know that Nic and Anduriel work together as more of a symbiotic organism. This is different from many of the fallen, where it is a one-sided relationship. I think Marcone/Namshiel will be more on the symbiotic side. Marcone knows that Namshiel has the knowledge and power to get what he wants, and Namshiel knows that Marcone has the intelligence and resources to get stuff done. If both parties are happy, they could be a very dangerous combo (brains and strength), but if one is stronger than the other or if one is trying to remain in control, then they would be less effective but possibly more dangerous (just strength with no sense on how to regulate it).
We know Nicodemus thinks that is the case.
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Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2021, 02:25:04 AM »
One question that remains unanswered is whether all of the Fallen line up with Nicodemus and Anduriel on how to best deal with the Outsiders.  I've been thinking that perhaps some of the Fallen might believe they have alternatives to a scorched earth policy that Nicodemus and Anduriel might be planning.  Similar to Cowl, Kumori and Corpse Taker talking about getting prepared to take advantage of a New Order that was about to arise, perhaps Namshiel or some of the other Fallen believe they can work with the Outsiders for their own ends.  Until this issue is clarified, I think it's difficult to know what Thorned Namshiel's long-term game is, other than further corrupting Marcone and finding a way to get in the driver's seat of that relationship.

I would also like to know what, if anything, Marcone has learned about the Outsiders.  It would indicate how much information Namshiel is sharing with Marcone.

As far as Marcone's decision to take up the coin goes, I think that after Gard's plan for a safe room within a safe building failed and Marcone was taken prisoner by Nicodemus, he felt that after all his precautions had failed that he needed something extra he could pull out of a hat.  He saw the chance to pick-pocket Michael and he took it.  We can't be certain when he went full Knight of the Blackened Denarians.  I would guess it wasn't right away.  Perhaps after Harry came back from the dead or before that, shortly after the Fomor started making their presence felt.

I think I need to reread the short story Even Hand and see if there are any subtle clues that I wouldn't have noticed the first time I read it.   
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 05:00:26 AM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2021, 05:00:37 AM »
Here is something to consider....  Marcone is the perfect person to take over the Denarians....  Namshiel is apparently at odds with Nicodemus, and I think that Marcone the man can match Nicodemus the man pretty well....  Nicodemus may have a real problem on his hands now.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2021, 01:19:04 PM »
The weird part is that from what we know of Namshiel, jolly cooperation is not part of his usual MO.

In Small Favor, he was one of the Denarians that liked to dominate his hosts completely. And yet post-Battle Ground we find out that he's apparently just some Magic Nerd that is willing to play partners with Marcone and make jokes in the middle of a battle?

Exactly, all this could backfire on Marcone big time, but for the moment they have the same agendas.  However it is said they want to go after Nic, anyone see Nic approach Harry in an effort to take out Marcone/Namshiel?  Also nobody has mentioned Nic's lovely Denarian wife, she also has an agenda, and wants control.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2021, 02:18:23 PM »
The weird part is that from what we know of Namshiel, jolly cooperation is not part of his usual MO.

In Small Favor, he was one of the Denarians that liked to dominate his hosts completely. And yet post-Battle Ground we find out that he's apparently just some Magic Nerd that is willing to play partners with Marcone and make jokes in the middle of a battle?

Could be the Fallen itself and/or the previous host were N-fected. That accounts for just about any erratic behaviour.

Could be he's pissed after Tessa and Rosanna maybe framed him for Arctis Tor and definitely pickpocketed the back of coins off of him and left him to lose his host and go to coin jail, and he decided he needs of a partnership role with Marcone if he's going to get even with the others who treat their hosts as a partner.

Offline Mira

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Re: Marcone/Namshiel, It Seems Weird to Me...
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2021, 03:44:28 PM »
Could be the Fallen itself and/or the previous host were N-fected. That accounts for just about any erratic behaviour.

Could be he's pissed after Tessa and Rosanna maybe framed him for Arctis Tor and definitely pickpocketed the back of coins off of him and left him to lose his host and go to coin jail, and he decided he needs of a partnership role with Marcone if he's going to get even with the others who treat their hosts as a partner.

All out civil war between the Denarians, interesting... Already a power struggle between Nic and Tessa, could it be that was the reason he wanted the Grail? Or more to the point, all of the Artifacts.