Goodman Grey - Yea, Nay or in-between - And more

[KurtinStGeorge]

Someone; sorry I don't remember who or in what thread it was in, made a very interesting comment about new characters being introduced into the Dresden Files.  I'm writing in generalities because I can't find the exact quote, but I gathered that they didn't think that Goodman Grey was all that.  They said that Jim had created other characters who are currently being ignored, like the mercenary Jared Kincade, who might be even more interesting to learn more about.  I tend to agree.  I didn't think Goodman Grey was such a compelling character that he would be anything more than one and done.  Like say, Terra West from Fool Moon.

I don't think this comment meant that the Goodman Grey character wasn't good in Skin Game.  Rather it was about the idea Jim has put forward about doing a series built around Goodman Grey after the Dresden Files is done (So sometime early in the second half of the 21st century.), but perhaps they were also referring to Grey's short appearance in Peace Talks.

When I first heard that Jim was thinking of doing a Goodman Grey series, I was underwhelmed by the idea.  Also, I can't say I was impressed with the Goodman Grey short story either, but Jim's forte isn't short stories, so that might not be much of an indicator of how good a Goodman Grey novel might be.  In fights I think G Grey is more than a little OP.  It appears to me that nothing short of someone like Mab could straight up flatten him. 

Also, I agreed that the idea of a character who is trying to transcend their monstrous beginnings could just as easily apply to Jared Kincade.  However, it's possible that Jim already has Kincade's fate worked out and Jim may have worked out Kincade's backstory to the degree that making the same story be about him wouldn't work.  But seeing as we, the audience, don't know Kincade's backstory beyond what's in the novels, I don't think that is much of an obstacle to be overcome.

However, I not really interested in whether a spinoff series should be based on Goodman Grey or Kincade.  I more interested what people think about Goodman Grey.  Do you find the character to be so compelling you'd want to read a series featuring him?  Are you expecting to find out what's happened to Kinkade since Ivy fired him.  (Besides the obvious, that he's doing hit jobs for cash.)  Are there other previously established Dresden Files characters being left on the shelf, that you would like to see get more time and development in the current story?   

[LaraBeck]

You're probably talking about me

...Same with the introduction of Goodman Gray, I think it was an ok character, but the super assassin thing was already being played by Kincaid. Like, imo, Gray wasn't that much cooler that he merited his own story before we got Kincaid's. Or more from Sanya for example. We got three stories from Molly's POV, and I'm glad, because we see the development of this character and I wish we could see more from those people  that are already in the story...

Yeah.. I liked Goodman Gray, I liked his participation in Skin Game, I didn't care for him in Peace Talks, and honestly the whole thing there with Justine was meh, but anyway. I suppose that after the assisted suicide situation and Ivy's reaction to it, it's not like Kincaid could just show up for the SG heist, because it wasn't the story for that reunion. I'm guessing Murphy's death will add to some things now in how Dresden and Kincaid interact with each other. I'm guessing that Kincaid coming back to the story would maybe have some kind of importance overall. So, obviously he couldn't be in SG or after because it wasn't time yet and another character was needed, so we got Gray.

And he's not bad, I just didn't find him interesting enough that I would want to read a whole series about him. The only thing that's worthy of attention is the 1 dollar fee thing, but that's not compelling enough for me yet. I feel like we already had some very interesting characters from which we could have more backstory or sidestories, Kincaid is one of them. Another one is Sanya, even Eb or Billy, people in the Paranet. They are already there, I don't think we need to get all new characters all the time.

I guess it could be argued that maybe Jim already has plans for them and maybe other character's POVs might reveal too much at the moment. But the Molly stories worked out just fine. I wish we had more stories like Molly's, we got like how many already, three, four? And they've been interesting and they added information to the central plot. I'd like to see more of that with the characters I've mentioned or others we already have.

Personally, I'm not really that interested in spin off stories, I want them to add to the main plot eventually. The only character, at the moment, I might make an exception for is Sanya, like maybe a short series of three novellas, about him before being a knight, becoming one, and his first years as one.

[groinkick]

Yeah there are some characters that I'd like to see more like Kincaid.  I think there are two main issues.  The first is there is a big character lineup, and Jim has them there for a reason, but can only use so many in any one book at a time.  The other thing is I think Jim has some of these characters doing things off screen.  Take Cowl for example.  He hasn't been seen in a while, and I'm curious about what he's up to.  I'm guessing though that off screen he has been very active, and Jim has all kinds of ideas for what he's been up to.

I like new additional characters, but also understand why it can be frustrating that more established characters we like don't get enough attention. 

[morriswalters]

Goodman Grey=Dresden II.  Only duller. Kincaid would be better if Jim went darker and Kincaid reconciled with the Archive. A series of stories based around their activities might be sweet.

[Yuillegan]

I liked Goodman Grey although I agree he does steal space from characters like Kincaid. I also agree that at times he is a bit overpowered. I seem to remember Ursiel and the Genoskwa getting the better of him though, and I doubt he would tangle with Mab.

It would be nice to have a book that catches us (the readers) up on a few things that have been left hanging. Jim did do a bit of that in the last two books, he brought in Draku, Mavra returned, gave us some more Star born info, revealed Nemesis, and a few other things.

But there are many threads that are very stale now. Where is Cowl and Kumori? What's the deal with the Elaine? How about the Black Council? We've seen the Denarians but what about the rest of Hell? The attack on Archangel, the attack on Arctis Tor, the origins of a bunch of species, the history with Merlin (and Mab), the involvement of humans with the supernatural (like the FBI getting belts), and Harry's mother's own history are all things that have been left hanging for a LONG time. Not to mention Harry talking with the actual White Council, not just Eb or Ramirez. What have they been up to? What's the Gatekeeper's position on recent events and what is his story? etc. etc.

[Mira]

  Sigh, wish he'd finish this series first, worry about spin offs later..

[LaraBeck]

  Sigh, wish he'd finish this series first, worry about spin offs later..

Totally agree with you on this.

This is probably what's gonna make me quit the series and not any character or story development that I might eventually not like, too much time between books. I get it that there were life issues and that's why we had to wait too long this time, but it's time to get back on track here. And writing is the job, so..

I think we need to go back to at least 1 Dresden book per year. I think Peace Talks and Battle Ground did a lot to "revive" the enthusiasm for the series in many of us that were already here and generated many new readers, so I hope Butcher takes advantage of that and starts producing faster.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Totally agree with you on this.

This is probably what's gonna make me quit the series and not any character or story development that I might eventually not like, too much time between books. I get it that there were life issues and that's why we had to wait too long this time, but it's time to get back on track here. And writing is the job, so..

I think we need to go back to at least 1 Dresden book per year. I think Peace Talks and Battle Ground did a lot to "revive" the enthusiasm for the series in many of us that were already here and generated many new readers, so I hope Butcher takes advantage of that and starts producing faster.

I agree with you.  Jim has said that he has a three book deal for the Cinder Spires series; however, from what I've heard him say in various interviews and con panels, I know he has more than three books ideas for that series.  I don't want to wish him bad luck, but I really hope that series doesn't get extended and he wraps things up; and of course, then concentrates on the Dresden Files.  (The truth is, talking cats aren't that big a draw for me.  I've had several real cats over the years and had no problems conversing with them, even if they only replied with meows,  purrs and other cat sounds.)

[Yuillegan]

I understand the frustration. But knowing a few authors, I'm inclined to believe that Jim really needs the break in content. He needs other stories to keep him interested and ideas fresh.

If he doesn't do the short stories, the spin-offs, the other series, he will probably get bored or get writer's block. Or both. Neither of which is good for us.

If anything, I wish he would condense a few story lines or add them in later.

Twelve Months is a book Jim feels strongly that he needs to write. I hope it is a good one and gets back to things not addressed since before Changes yet without losing the momentum of where the books currently are. Mirror Mirror should be very exciting, and while the wrestling book "Fight Night" features gods and should be interesting cosmologically speaking, I am worried it will get bogged down in the wrestling side of things which could really go either way unfortunately.

Then there is the Dragon book, which should be great. But tbh I hope after that it's straight to the BAT. Does it need to be a trilogy? Maybe. It all feels a LONG way off though.

[Mira]

If he doesn't do the short stories, the spin-offs, the other series, he will probably get bored or get writer's block. Or both. Neither of which is good for us.

All the more reason to wrap it up, stringing his readers along for years with bread crumbs sprinkled among short stories and spin-offs that are not his best work.  Three or four well written books that finish up the series is better than ten half assed ones..

[seanham]

But there are many threads that are very stale now. Where is Cowl and Kumori? What's the deal with the Elaine? How about the Black Council? We've seen the Denarians but what about the rest of Hell? The attack on Archangel, the attack on Arctis Tor, the origins of a bunch of species, the history with Merlin (and Mab), the involvement of humans with the supernatural (like the FBI getting belts), and Harry's mother's own history are all things that have been left hanging for a LONG time. Not to mention Harry talking with the actual White Council, not just Eb or Ramirez. What have they been up to? What's the Gatekeeper's position on recent events and what is his story? etc. etc.

I understand the sentiment; however, maybe some of these things are just what happened, and that's the way it is. The attack on Archangel could just have been an overwelling number of vampires attacking when it was least expected. Where/when would Harry talk with the (as the post said) actual White Council vs. Eb or Ramirez? Harry doesn't like the council, and the council doesn't like Harry; I don't think either would go out of their way to purposefully interact. Besides, we have several short shorties and in-book interactions with Wardens and the greater Council.

However, I completely agree that we need more information on Harry's mom and the Gatekeeper (would take a book about either of these characters).

[Yuillegan]

All the more reason to wrap it up, stringing his readers along for years with bread crumbs sprinkled among short stories and spin-offs that are not his best work.  Three or four well written books that finish up the series is better than ten half assed ones..

I agree, to a point. Perhaps even Jim has realised over time that he over committed to writing an extraordinarily large series, who knows? I suspect part of the issue is that he has certain things he wants to do at the end, big things that are part of the whole story. But he still needs books in which to introduce them. So he can't leave them out altogether. But if he just mashes them into each other I suspect they wouldn't be great books and the fans would be upset.

In terms of efficiency, he probably could just do one more book and start the BAT. I think he could put Mirror Mirror, Fight Night, and the dragon book all into the BAT. But I doubt it. I am just hoping he doesn't add any more than those three books...but he does keep saying it's 22 or 23 case files. I just don't see that as being necessary whatsoever. But then again, he's the best selling author and I'm just some person on the internet.

I understand the sentiment; however, maybe some of these things are just what happened, and that's the way it is. The attack on Archangel could just have been an overwelling number of vampires attacking when it was least expected. Where/when would Harry talk with the (as the post said) actual White Council vs. Eb or Ramirez? Harry doesn't like the council, and the council doesn't like Harry; I don't think either would go out of their way to purposefully interact. Besides, we have several short shorties and in-book interactions with Wardens and the greater Council.

However, I completely agree that we need more information on Harry's mom and the Gatekeeper (would take a book about either of these characters).

I think we can't dismiss the attack on Archangel. It was the first Senior Council death. It also was an inside job apparently, as someone would have needed to know his wards to get in. It was also the death of the White Council's most senior expert on vampires...right before the war with vampires. Vampires couldn't just have got in...the guy who knew them best and had the strongest defences against them somehow lost to them. I'd say it was more than a little unlikely. There is definitely more to it.

Well, that would be up to Jim to write a meeting with the White Council. I mean, it borders on ridiculous. Harry (a warden, and also THE Warden of Demonreach) gets murdered. He then comes back and is reinstated, yet never visits them and his only interactions are with the Gatekeeper, Eb, LtW etc but in passing. I can't imagine the Merlin didn't want to summon him and debrief him. I think he has actually had several opportunities since Cold Days but that's not how things played out. Harry may not like the Council, and they might not like him all that much (mostly) but that doesn't mean they wouldn't want to manage him. Perhaps even make sure he hasn't become the monster they think he might, because if so that might mean they have to deal with him...

[BrainFireBob]

All the more reason to wrap it up, stringing his readers along for years with bread crumbs sprinkled among short stories and spin-offs that are not his best work.  Three or four well written books that finish up the series is better than ten half assed ones..

He scoped the whole series out generally when he started. I was at a signing where he mentioned he was told he was nuts and he was starting to appreciate that- right when Cold Days came out.

[Yuillegan]

He scoped the whole series out generally when he started. I was at a signing where he mentioned he was told he was nuts and he was starting to appreciate that- right when Cold Days came out.

At least he knows. But I do respect how big his dreams were. It's a hell of an undertaking.

[Mira]

At least he knows. But I do respect how big his dreams were. It's a hell of an undertaking.

Yes, and something he could handle in the first half of the series, however it is beginning to suffer
from being drawn out way too long.