Mirror Mirror character changes ideas

[forumghost]

Specifically Jim said the decision Harry made at the end of Grave Peril is what triggered the divergence, so the most likely candidate is imho killing Bianca and her Court.

Which means the Red Court don't go to War prematurely and probably perform a successful decapitation strike on the White Council.

So yeah, my guess for MMverse is that we'll see the Red Court in ascendancy, with the White Council a broken shell, probably run openly by either Cowl or a patsy, and Evil!Harry on the run, working with a bunch of his enemies from main timeline.

It'll be a little 'this is the world if you fail' for Harry.

[groinkick]

I misplaced Grave Peril so I can't quote Harry, but to me it is strongly worded that his Choice was choosing to back up Michael, rather than leave with Susan.  I believe that Mirror Mirror Harry made the other choice.  To leave safely with Susan while Michael goes for the Sword himself.

What do I think happened as a result?

1. I think it's likely Michael gets killed, or turned into a Black Court vamp my Mavra for revenge.
2. Because Harry leaves, he doesn't get his power back like Prime Harry did.

So Harry will lose one of his moral compasses, and he will be living scared, trying to protect the woman he loves.  This is where he turns dark, I think.  He needs to find a way to increase his power to keep Susan safe.  He will begin tapping into dark magic to do that.  My guess is that he starts using necromancy to feed on shades the way Kemmler did.  Not only will he get to his previous power level, but he will surpass it. 

What will happen to Susan?  I'm not sure.  She could get killed anyways because Harry couldn't protect her, or she might be turned into a full Red Court vamp, or I think she could leave him as he changes into someone else through dark magic.  Bianca will still be alive, and will have continued going after Harry for revenge.  She could still be alive in the series, or new super charged Dresden nuked her, and she's gone.

[Bad Alias]

I don't think that decision is close enough to the end of GP to qualify, but sometimes Jim isn't as precise as we like to give him credit for.

[groinkick]

I don't think that decision is close enough to the end of GP to qualify, but sometimes Jim isn't as precise as we like to give him credit for.

I thought he said it took place during Bianca's Ball?

[LostInTime]

If you follow the classics, then Dresden will see three major changes --- all changes that make for a very painful realization for Dresden. 

1) One close ally who is now an enemy

2) One deadly enemy who must be an ally

3) One treasured companion was dead is now alive

4) One friend who is changed for the worse

5) Someone new who he learns a great deal about --- so that he can show off in a later book

Michael is the ally that is now an enemy. Michael will be a Blampire or Rampire.

Mirror Harry works with Marcone.

Who was dead and is alive in the Mirrorverse. Clearly, this is Murphy.

One friend who is changed for the worse. Molly, who is either a warlock and on the run or is dead.

Someone he learns a great deal about will be Chandler. Jim dropped a big hint that we'll see Chandler again in the Mirrorverse.

[Mira]

   Little Harry, his name sake that he saved when he saved the pregnant Charity, like his older sister, has talent and is more pure warlock than Molly ever was.  He could even be on his way to becoming the next Kemmler.. So for the sake of mankind, Harry go back and changes things so though he still saves Charity, she loses the baby..

[Griffyn612]

Mirrorverse Teams

Team Dresden

• Harry Dresden, necromancer, Baron of Chicago, noose-bearer
• Molly Carpenter, mind-mage
• Rat, dark twisted temple dog gifted to Harry by Mavra
• Li Xian, ghoul, Dresden's drummer
• Nelson, magically enhanced human, Molly's drummer
• Evil Bob, full entity
• Alfred
• Street Wolves, local pack of lycanthropes
• Grevane, necromancer, loose ally
• Darth Wannabe and fellow dark mages
• Aristedes and subordinate humans
• Mavra, black Court vampire, liaison with Black Court
• Susan Rodriguez, red Court leader in Chicago, liaison with Red Court
• Lea-Nemesis, helps Harry with Outsider magic
• Outsiders, summoned and trapped in Demonreach
• Inari Raith, liaison with White Court under Lord Raith
• Lacuna, captain of Harry's little folk forces
• Francisca Garcia/Lasciel, liaison with Denarians

Team Chicago

• Karrin Murphy, owner of Fidelacchius
• John Marcone, leader of Chicago Resistance
• Sarissa, Winter liaison
• Alphas, local werewolf pack
• Lara Raith, former quasi-ally of Harry's that turned as he went darker and she rebelled against her father
• Agent Barry Tilly
• Mac, back in
• Mortimer Lindquist, protects shades from Harry consuming them
• Fitz, escaped Aristedes, apprentices with Lindquist
• Special Investigations
• Toot-Toot, allied with Karrin when Harry went too dark
• Hendricks
• Gard
• Mister

Team Winter

• Mother Winter
• Mab
• Maeve, uninfected
• Thomas Raith, Winter Knight

Team Summer

• Mother Summer
• Titania
• Lily
• Ace, Summer Knight

Deceased

• Michael Carpenter
• Waldo Butters
• Fix
• Justine
• Most of the White Council
• Nicodemus

[groinkick]

Mirrorverse Teams

Team Dresden

• Harry Dresden, necromancer, Baron of Chicago, noose-bearer
• Molly Carpenter, mind-mage
• Rat, dark twisted temple dog gifted to Harry by Mavra
• Li Xian, ghoul, Dresden's drummer
• Nelson, magically enhanced human, Molly's drummer
• Evil Bob, full entity
• Alfred
• Street Wolves, local pack of lycanthropes
• Grevane, necromancer, loose ally
• Darth Wannabe and fellow dark mages
• Aristedes and subordinate humans
• Mavra, black Court vampire, liaison with Black Court
• Susan Rodriguez, red Court leader in Chicago, liaison with Red Court
• Lea-Nemesis, helps Harry with Outsider magic
• Outsiders, summoned and trapped in Demonreach
• Inari Raith, liaison with White Court under Lord Raith
• Lacuna, captain of Harry's little folk forces
• Francisca Garcia/Lasciel, liaison with Denarians

Team Chicago

• Karrin Murphy, owner of Fidelacchius
• John Marcone, leader of Chicago Resistance
• Sarissa, Winter liaison
• Alphas, local werewolf pack
• Lara Raith, former quasi-ally of Harry's that turned as he went darker and she rebelled against her father
• Agent Barry Tilly
• Mac, back in
• Mortimer Lindquist, protects shades from Harry consuming them
• Fitz, escaped Aristedes, apprentices with Lindquist
• Special Investigations
• Toot-Toot, allied with Karrin when Harry went too dark
• Hendricks
• Gard
• Mister

Team Winter

• Mother Winter
• Mab
• Maeve, uninfected
• Thomas Raith, Winter Knight

Team Summer

• Mother Summer
• Titania
• Lily
• Ace, Summer Knight

Deceased

• Michael Carpenter
• Waldo Butters
• Fix
• Justine
• Most of the White Council
• Nicodemus

What do you think the choice he made that altered things?

Michael is the ally that is now an enemy. Michael will be a Blampire or Rampire.

Very well could be. 

Mirror Harry works with Marcone.

I think the opposite.  Marcone is the good guy, Harry the bad

Who was dead and is alive in the Mirrorverse. Clearly, this is Murphy.

I think Susan & Murphy

One friend who is changed for the worse. Molly, who is either a warlock and on the run or is dead.

Harry visits Thomas's grave.  He died trying to do the right thing.  Or he's the new leader of the White Court and just like his father, who he killed.  Molly could very well be a warlock, or maybe a warden under the training of Morgan is hunting Harry.

Someone he learns a great deal about will be Chandler. Jim dropped a big hint that we'll see Chandler again in the Mirrorverse.

Could be darn interesting.

[Griffyn612]

What do you think the choice he made that altered things?

My guess is that Harry didn't say he loved Susan in the basement of Bianca's mansion. She went feral, knocked him out but didn't kill him because of the poison in his blood, so she killed Justine instead.

Upon waking up, Harry got out and headed upstairs to find Susan fully turned with Bianca. He couldn't kill Susan, so he walked away rather than fighting.

I also like to think he still beat the Nightmare while unconscious, and ate his power. By not using it to destroy the mansion, is stayed within him, partially corrupting him.

I also think Bianca could have sent footage of Harry's attack at the party to the White Council, which declared him a full warlock. Since the place wasn't completely destroyed like it was in GP, security footage might have survived.

Thus Harry starts on the dark path with isolation and regret while being hunted by everyone.

[groinkick]

My guess is that Harry didn't say he loved Susan in the basement of Bianca's mansion. She went feral, knocked him out but didn't kill him because of the poison in his blood, so she killed Justine instead.

Upon waking up, Harry got out and headed upstairs to find Susan fully turned with Bianca. He couldn't kill Susan, so he walked away rather than fighting.

I also like to think he still beat the Nightmare while unconscious, and ate his power. By not using it to destroy the mansion, is stayed within him, partially corrupting him.

I also think Bianca could have sent footage of Harry's attack at the party to the White Council, which declared him a full warlock. Since the place wasn't completely destroyed like it was in GP, security footage might have survived.

Thus Harry starts on the dark path with isolation and regret while being hunted by everyone.

Oh that's a great theory.  I don't think he beat the nightmare.  He's lost his love, and his power.  Bianca wants him to live a long life like this, and lets him leave.  He swears to himself that he will do whatever it takes to make her pay.  He asks Bob how he can charge up his power in a hurry.  Bob refuses to tell until Harry makes it an order.  It's there that he begins tapping into Necromancy.  He must start small in his weakened state, just a single shade at a time, but consumes more, and more.  Not only does he gain all his power back, he surpasses it. 

As for his standing with the White Council.  I don't know if he will be declared a warlock.  I think he gets kicked out for violating the Accords.  It's later on that they discover he's using necromancy that they go after him, or maybe he nukes Bianca's place to get revenge resulting in many casualties, including mortal security.  White Council finds out, deems him a warlock.

I also wonder if Harry will be straight up evil, or will he be more like the Harry we wished he would be sometimes (smarter, doesn't hold back against enemies).  Maybe he see's killing other Harry's as not murder because it's just him lol

[Second Aristh]

My guess is that Harry didn't say he loved Susan in the basement of Bianca's mansion. She went feral, knocked him out but didn't kill him because of the poison in his blood, so she killed Justine instead.

Upon waking up, Harry got out and headed upstairs to find Susan fully turned with Bianca. He couldn't kill Susan, so he walked away rather than fighting.

I also like to think he still beat the Nightmare while unconscious, and ate his power. By not using it to destroy the mansion, is stayed within him, partially corrupting him.

I also think Bianca could have sent footage of Harry's attack at the party to the White Council, which declared him a full warlock. Since the place wasn't completely destroyed like it was in GP, security footage might have survived.

Thus Harry starts on the dark path with isolation and regret while being hunted by everyone.

I think that’s pretty spot on. It would also ruin any chance that Thomas would be Harry’s ally, so probably Papa Raith is still in charge of the White Court.

[morriswalters]

I have no idea of the specific choice.  There are a few at the end. But I think I know what kind of choice it will be. Bianca put it on the headstone.

[Snark Knight]

Here's something I don't think anyone has mentioned.  Wizard Peabody is still alive and a member of the White Council.  Warden Morgan is probably dead and the White Council is losing the war with Red Court.

Hopefully not. It would mess Harry up way more if Molly was Morgan's apprentice, with them united in blaming Harry for Michael and Luccio dying, and fanatical about revenge.

[Mira]

Hopefully not. It would mess Harry up way more if Molly was Morgan's apprentice, with them united in blaming Harry for Michael and Luccio dying, and fanatical about revenge.

I think it will be more subtle than that, like Harry not trying to kill Lea with the Sword of Love losing it so that she could trade it for the infected Knife... I can see Harry blaming himself fot all that happened after at the party on that moment, if only he hadn't tried to use a Holy Sword like that, then things would be so much better.. In Wonderful Life fashion, no in many ways it would be a lot worse...  As in Susan still would have stolen the invite, Harry wouldn't have gone to the party, Susan still might have been food and or fully turned when the Reds realized she had crashed the party.. Little Maggie for starters would never have been born.. Shall we make a list?  Oh and I can see Uriel arranging all of the above.

[Monkez]

So what are your idea's on characters being different in the alternate reality?

Susan - She's alive, and full on Red Court, head of the Red Court in Chicago
Michael - He fell at Bianca's party, and offered as a gift to Mavra.  She turns him Black Court as revenge
Marcone - Knight of the Cross
Murphy - She and Marcone are lovers
Harry - Full on necromancer.  He empowers himself with shades.

Such a fun topic!!

Harry -  Denarian and completely simpatico with Lasciel.
Marcone - Knight of the Cross (This is just too good not to use).
Murphy - Dead from the Loup Garou.
Maggie - No Maggie, Harry didn't show up in time.
Susan - Still alive and still an unturned Red Court vamp, will never forgive Harry for saving Maggie (hey, how else to torture Harry even more?)
Michael - Black Court vamp (such a great idea)
Molly - a crazy mind controlling bad guy still on the run from the white council
Morgan - still dead, but took all the blame
Peabody - still slowly infecting the White Council's minds with his special ink
The Archive - I don't know how she'd be different, but she'd be an interesting character in the story.
Rudolph is a good guy and is trying to help Harry (talk about torture)
The ThreeEye drug problem is out of control in Chicago...