Author Topic: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas  (Read 13972 times)

Offline groinkick

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Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« on: April 12, 2021, 03:30:37 AM »
So what are your idea's on characters being different in the alternate reality?

Susan - She's alive, and full on Red Court, head of the Red Court in Chicago
Michael - He fell at Bianca's party, and offered as a gift to Mavra.  She turns him Black Court as revenge
Marcone - Knight of the Cross
Murphy - She and Marcone are lovers
Harry - Full on necromancer.  He empowers himself with shades.




Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline Phygers

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2021, 06:46:33 AM »
If you go with how Jim thinks its a good time to torture his readers and Harry: Murphy married to Rudolph happily at that maybe with kids. Maggie as the heir to Susan and Harry's Court in Chicago. Evil Harry let's his inner Bob out and whores himself out to the supernatural women of the city.

Offline dspringer1

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 10:30:18 PM »
If you follow the classics, then Dresden will see three major changes --- all changes that make for a very painful realization for Dresden. 

1) One close ally who is now an enemy

2) One deadly enemy who must be an ally

3) One treasured companion was dead is now alive

4) One friend who is changed for the worse

5) Someone new who he learns a great deal about --- so that he can show off in a later book :)


The ally that is an enemy is almost certainly Michael, but honestly that is probably too simple as a Knight of the Cross would be able to tell that this Dresden is now their Dresden.  I would argue that the ally who is now an enemy is Murphy - which also nicely ties up #3 as well.  And Murphy would be a very dangerous foe for Dresden for many reasons.   You can make the case that a Susan as Red Court vamp would make a good enemy as well, but it feels weaker. 

The enemy who may be an ally.  Again the obvious answer is Marcone, but also again that is too simple.  To really make this hurt, the ally has to be a serious enemy.   That means you are looking at Lashiel or Nickodemus - both would make very painful allies.   Other possibilities (Maeve, Lily, Merlin, Red King -- simply do not have the emotional connection to make this alliance BURN Dresden's soul. 

Treasured companion now alive is obviously Susan or Murphy - and you have already read why I think it would be Murphy. 

Friend changed for the worse is most obviously Molly, except the author has already put Dresden through a lot of heartache related to Molly.  A case can be made that Charity could be the one that turned in a dark direction if the change resulted in Michael's death, especially if Dresden is at fault.     

Somebody new is pure speculation, but I think this would be a great book to tell us a lot about the federal agency focused on the supernatural.  And the payback in later books when Dresden shows off would be golden.   

Offline forumghost

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 11:45:45 PM »
I don't see Marcone becoming a Knight, that idea has always been weird to me.

If anything I guess he'll be part of a Supervillain Alliance with Alt!Harry and some of the other recurring villains of the story that have teamed up to do something about the fact that the less-evil factions are all broken and/or subverted at this point.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 12:48:57 AM »
Honestly I expect either Rudolph or Mavra to be the one that Harry has to team up with in Mirror Mirror.
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Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 06:10:10 AM »
He will team up with Uriel, who is the same Uriel in all universes, but as he is Uriel he can do virtually nothing in all of those universes. The exception is to intercede with Mab Prime and Alt Mab, who is a different Mab but knows of and can communicate with Mab Prime. WOJ has confirmed this.

Harry will therefore have two Mab’s annoyed with him at the same time.

“Mab was beside herself in fury” Harry said “literally, unfortunately”

Harry is a much prized Winter Knight by Mab, what if he is so highly prized AltMab wants to keep him? They would stalemate each other keeping Harry trapped, his only option to agree to do something for AltMab so she relents. He has to recruit Alt Harry as her Winter Knight, make him agree to it by his free will.

And we all know what happens when someone makes Harry try to do something he doesn’t want to do. Harry has to do the impossible, change AltHarry’s mind.


Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2021, 07:35:57 PM »
Murphy and Marcone are lovers!?
LOL.  I don't think so, but it would certainly get Harry PO'd if it happened.

Murphy will be Alt-Harry's enemy.
Nicodemus will be Alt-Harry's ally.

Susan is full Red Court. Yes
Michael is dead. Yes, but not Black Court.
Thomas is the Winter Knight and is going totally evil or maybe is all the way there when Harry arrives.
Marcone: Something has radically changed him, but KotC seems too large a stretch for me. 
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2021, 07:50:31 PM »
Murphy and Marcone are lovers!?
LOL.  I don't think so, but it would certainly get Harry PO'd if it happened.
Murphy worked with Marcone during the time of Ghost Story.  Imagine going many years back to when Alternate Harry made a bad choice.  Murphy may have started working with Marcone many years before.  After working with him for that long?  Who knows where that could lead.

Quote
Marcone: Something has radically changed him, but KotC seems too large a stretch for me.

Murphy :)..  I mean think about it.  things are supposed to be the opposite in this reality...  Marcone is a Denarian now.  The flip side is he'd be a KoTC. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 07:55:38 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2021, 07:53:22 PM »
Honestly I expect either Rudolph or Mavra to be the one that Harry has to team up with in Mirror Mirror.

Could have swore it was hinted he'd be working with Mavra...  I don't know if it was a woj or what.  I could see it being Mavra though.  One of Dresden's possible powerups was to go full on Necromancer according to Jim.  Mavra and her ilk fear that kind of magic.  Maybe alternate Dresden is a Necromancer, and is more than capable of enslaving her.  Hell maybe he can drain the very thing that keeps her alive (if you can call it that) for the purpose of empowering himself.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2021, 08:54:09 PM »
Marcone is a police officer.

Murphy is happily married to Rich, has 7 children with him and wears cute dresses with flower print.

Michael and Charity are Denarians. They don't have any children.

Nicodemus has never picked up a coin and therefore is long dead. Anyway, the book isn't divisible by 5, so he won't be in there.

Uriel is the same.

Mab is the head of the wizards.

Ancient Mai is Winter Queen.

Harry's mother is still alive and with Lord Thomas Raith who leads the defense of the Outer Gates with all the other White Court Vampires. Thomas has killed his father a long time ago and became Vampire king himself.


I have no idea where I would put Harry or Ebenezar. I just blurted out what was in my head here, lol.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2021, 11:13:42 PM »
Marcone is a police officer.

Murphy is happily married to Rich, has 7 children with him and wears cute dresses with flower print.

Michael and Charity are Denarians. They don't have any children.

Nicodemus has never picked up a coin and therefore is long dead. Anyway, the book isn't divisible by 5, so he won't be in there.

Uriel is the same.

Mab is the head of the wizards.

Ancient Mai is Winter Queen.

Harry's mother is still alive and with Lord Thomas Raith who leads the defense of the Outer Gates with all the other White Court Vampires. Thomas has killed his father a long time ago and became Vampire king himself.


I have no idea where I would put Harry or Ebenezar. I just blurted out what was in my head here, lol.

The main problem with these alternate character traits is that Jim has said that all the changes in the Mirror Mirror world will spring from Harry having made a single different choice in Grave Peril.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2021, 11:27:12 PM »
The main problem with these alternate character traits is that Jim has said that all the changes in the Mirror Mirror world will spring from Harry having made a single different choice in Grave Peril.
Oh. Damn. You're right. I didn't think of that.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 12:57:35 AM »
Could have swore it was hinted he'd be working with Mavra...  I don't know if it was a woj or what.  I could see it being Mavra though.  One of Dresden's possible powerups was to go full on Necromancer according to Jim.  Mavra and her ilk fear that kind of magic.  Maybe alternate Dresden is a Necromancer, and is more than capable of enslaving her.  Hell maybe he can drain the very thing that keeps her alive (if you can call it that) for the purpose of empowering himself.

I remember that in Dead Beat, Bob said that Kemmler was buddies with most of the vampire courts.  So, if Alt-Harry has become a necromancer it might make sense that he is working with Mavra.  If that is what happens, then it's possible that our Harry might learn more about the Black Court and Drakul in particular. 

I'm expecting a scene or two where Harry disguises himself as Alt-Harry.  It happened in the original Star Trek episode, so I'm guessing Jim won't pass up an opportunity to do the same thing in his Mirror Mirror story.  In that case Harry could actually meet Drakul and get some juicy information first hand.

IMO, The only other interesting character that Harry doesn't have much information on is Cowl.  So I could see Alt-Harry working with him.
 However, dangerous as Cowl may be, Mavra is far creepier and is therefore a better dramatic choice for Alt-Harry to have as an ally.

Here's something I don't think anyone has mentioned.  Wizard Peabody is still alive and a member of the White Council.  Warden Morgan is probably dead and the White Council is losing the war with Red Court. 

Also, before finding a way to go home I would guess that Harry would want to set things right to the degree that he can.  He'll have to find a way to expose Peabody, redeem either Thomas or Molly, depending on which one is still alive and for personal reasons find time to fit in a soulgaze with Murphy.
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Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2021, 09:05:21 PM »
Could have swore it was hinted he'd be working with Mavra...  I don't know if it was a woj or what.  I could see it being Mavra though.  One of Dresden's possible powerups was to go full on Necromancer according to Jim.  Mavra and her ilk fear that kind of magic.  Maybe alternate Dresden is a Necromancer, and is more than capable of enslaving her.  Hell maybe he can drain the very thing that keeps her alive (if you can call it that) for the purpose of empowering himself.
Well one of the Harrys is a fast ally of Mavra by WoJ, but it doesn't say which one, could easily spin that into a really awkward teamup.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Mirror Mirror character changes ideas
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2021, 10:11:54 PM »
If Harry is a full blown necromancy he probably used Kemmler’s book to enthrall Mavra
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