Oh, good idea!
Ok.. Yeah, as far as we know, Karrin is dead. BUT we haven't really seen the personal (for Harry) or cosmical (for the DV universe) consequences/ripples of that death yet, because there wasn't space or time or whatever in Battle Ground or the christmas story for that to be covered. We do know that Harry is still hurt about it 5-6 months later (according to timeline BG happened in July). Or if things will indeed remain as they are.
So, as hard as this death was for me as a fan (Murphy was my favorite, full disclosure), I think that we can't completely judge yet what this will mean for the future in the story of the series.
Like I commented on that other thread, I don't think anything after Changes has been as good as before, and with the waiting time, I was kinda out of the series after Skin Game and just came back 'cause a fellow fan texted me with the news about Murphy and of course I had to see for myself how that happened. And as painful as that death was, I think Battle Ground set things up in a way that made the series interesting again, by leaving a lot unsaid yet. So, I'm definitely curious about what's gonna happen next and what the consequences of everything that happened are gonna be.
So, I did not like Murphy dying, BUT I also believe that that story is not over yet and I'm willing to keep reading because:
a) I really like the series, mostly it's just fun (I don't look for moral or philosophical lessons in this series or anything too profound tbh, just fun, so I don't put too much weight on it) and there's been a lot of interesting worldbuilding, I'm curious about the endgame Butcher's aiming for.
b) Like you said @KurtinStGeorge, I do think that Karrin Murphy will be back, and probably in the next couple of books, I don't think we'll need to wait that long.
I do understand why some people are leaving the series now, though I'd think it fair to give it at least a couple of more books to see how this death is dealt with (and even it if sticks).
Personally, I'm staying unless the series radically changes over the course of the next 2-3 books to the point that is unrecognizable and it takes too long between books. @Mira has pointed out in other threads that Butcher seems to be spreading himself too thin and this series (which is fair to say is his most popular/important one, I think) is suffering for it, and I think that is a fair assessment too.
Anyway, given how so much is kinda in the open now, I think is fair and fun to speculate, and as a Murphy fan, add some wishful thinking too, if you don't mind
Now, onto your proposed scenarios:
1. Ragnarok is not as far in the future as you; and apparently Ms. Gard, thinks it is. In this scenario Odin knows his time is coming to an end and calls in the favor that Harry owes him to take care of some unfinished business. The rule about einherjar not being seen until after the memory of them has disappeared goes out the window because it's an all hands on deck situation. So Einherjar Murphy works as Odin's liaison with Dresden, helping him accomplish whatever it is Odin wants to get done. The problem with this scenario is built into Norse mythology. When Ragnarok occurs, all the einherjar die along with Odin. So, Harry would get to lose Murphy twice. Yea, I'm not seeing that as a fan favorite idea, and I'm pretty sure Jim would realize that and not go there.
Ugh, honestly, I just hate that memory rule that came out of the blue here. Like, I get it, it's a device to deliver some pain, but it's so left field. I don't see the logic in it, why that would be important in-universe.
Anyway, I think it is possible to have this scenario, but let me go a bit wild for a while.
Since we know that Odin and Uriel seem to collaborate (and they meet once a year, if I remember correctly),
I'm kinda picturing that Murphy is sorta on loan to Odin, or as a favor to the White God, because there might be some thing that she still has to do to help with what's coming, some role she still has to play.
Since we only see what Dresden knows (and what he wants to talk to us about) maybe Murphy's cut her own kind of deals behind the scenes, and she did reach some sort of agreement with Vadderung and we just don't know yet. Maybe when she died, she got her own talk with Uriel alla Ghost Story situation, maybe she got to see her dad and was given the choice to keep fighting, it just has to be by being with Odin's people because the White God doesn't go around resurrecting people, you know, there was just this one guy.
And she is Catholic, and she seemed to still hold that faith until the last we saw of her, and the DV White God seems to always have a plan, and what happens to his people happens for some reason. I mean, he never abandoned Michael or Charity, the sword of faith seemed to have become broken only to become better (you could say Murphy was instrumental to that, even). I think it's fair to think Murphy would be one of His people, and yes, we could argue that God seemed to have abandoned her because only shitty things have happened to Karrin for a long time now, but maybe that IS the point, you fall before you rise ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The White God seems to be all about choice in the DV, so I could see a scenario where she was given the choice, move on to "what comes after" or rejoin the fight in a different capacity, and of course, being Murphy she chooses to continue and that's how she ends up among Odin's people. She'd have to deal with "after" when she's done with the fight on Earth/Chicago. (LOL, this could be another "Aftermath" type of short story, and I would definitely pay to read that).
So, when this scenario number 1 happens and Ragnarok is here, she dies again with Odin this time, loan ends, and moves on to whatever the White God calls the "what comes after". I doubt she'd go to the bad afterlife. It'd be bittersweet for her and Dresden, yeah, but it could fit.
And we don't know if Dresden survives Ragnarok himself. I guess it also depends if Ragnarok is the same as the BAT or is it's own thing.
And maybe if Harry does survive Ragnarok, if I go all shippy about it, I could imagine a sorta Dante/Beatrice sorta situation you know, she sorta already was the Beatrice to his Benedic. But I'm not a fan of this particular situation or scenario.
2. Ragnarok will not take place anytime in the near future, but Odin needs to get something done in the near term and the person best qualified is the Winter Knight, so Odin calls in his favor. Ordinarily, this wouldn't involve Harry getting to see Murphy, but this favor can only be accomplished in Asgard or maybe Valhalla. Harry has been to one afterlife, so why not another one? Odin's rule isn't violated because Murphy doesn't go back to earth, Harry goes to her and gets to work with her again. This is a rather bittersweet scenario because it's a one and done affair. This scenario could happen, but I don't think it would make fans very happy; plus, I don't really see the point of having Murphy back one last time. I doubt Jim would consider it.
Oh, that's interesting, the fact that is Harry who could go to another afterlife, Asgard or Valhalla, and then meet her, good loophole. I think that's very much possible. And they getting to work again, yeah, it'd be sorta like in Skin Game, getting Michael in the field again one more time. Of all the scenarios though,
this IS the one I'd hate the most, to be honest. Well, this or getting Murphy back in Mirror Mirror only to never appear again.
And I don't see the point in bringing her back for that "just one more time" thing. I suppose it could be for that long overdue Soulgaze that many of us have believed would reveal something important to Dresden if/when it happened between them. But still, like, bringing her back for just that, a handy tool, I don't like it. Then I might really feel like the character has been wronged indeed.
I think if we're gonna get Murphy back for something, it has to be for something big, like in scenario 1, Ragnarok, the BAT, etc or I'd rather not have her back at all, tbh.
But most of all, I'd rather have her with agency again. If I'm gonna think "what is good for Karrin?", considering how downhill things have been for her, and I mentioned this is the other thread, how I feel a bit like Dresden has not been equally giving to her (granted because of him having to deal with a lot, but still), and how being close to him (though by her own choice of course) has resulted in so much damage to her, maybe for her own good, she needs time away from the guy. We could say that she has damaged herself a lot by choosing to be close to Dresden and his side of things. Maybe she should go do her own thing again.
Which is why of the proposed scenarios, I like scenario number 3 the best3. This should be really easy to guess. Sure, an einherjar can't return to earth until their memory has faded from living memory, but I don't remember Gard saying anything about this rule applying to valkyries. Karrin Murphy doesn't really fit the berserker stereotype. I can't picture Murphy ever joyfully charging into battle against Jotuns, even with a rocket launcher. Murphy as a valkyrie, that I can picture. I even have a long scenario how this could happen, but there's no need to go into that. The beauty of this scenario is Murphy doesn't have to be in every book. She can be off doing jobs for Odin most of the time. When she gives Harry advice it could be practical advice because she is now a real player in the supernatural game.
You know, something that called my attention while reading Battle Ground was how, at some point in the beginning of the battle (I think), Dresden actually goes into, what seemed to me, a bit too much detail about the Einherjar.
Battle Ground, Ch 11 and 14:
...a last towering Huntsman. A couple of the largest Einherjaren fought the thing with six-foot claymores and made a bloody mess of the street, laughing uproariously the entire time.
I’m not kidding. Laughing. The freaking eternal soldiers were having a ball tonight. That poor lunkhead Lara had left unconscious in the basement was missing Viking Christmas.
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The Einherjaren let out whoops of excitement and approval as their weapons roared, absolutely withering every octokong on the ground.
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I looked around me to see the Einherjaren staring at the incoming behemoths, mouths open, eyes bright.
Then the big guy with the grenade launcher screamed, in freaking joy, “JOTNAR! JOTNAR OF MUSPELHEIM!”
And the goddamned madmen roared their excitement and began their own war song in answer.
I don't think Murphy fits with that. I was very shocked for exactly this reason when Gard said she was taken to be an Einherjar, it didn't seem to fit. Karrin went to war out of duty, but I don't think she ever went with glee for the battle.
Now, a Valkyrie is what always felt right (and many fans wanted, myself included after doing some revisiting of the series). And why not?
I don't know much about Norse mythology, but Valkyries are supposed to be born not made, right? We never got much on that except what Gard said about not being Odin's daughters, so we don't know how it works in DV universe. But maybe Valkyrie is something you can ascend to. And why not? I mean, since we're already throwing being faithful to mythologies out the window (see the Einherjar memory rule), why not make a Valkyrie something you can ascend to / being promoted to?
Who knows, maybe Murph starts as Einherjar and ends up a Valkyrie after some other deeds or something, I dunno. Something interesting about Murphy is that throughout the story she keeps getting all these offers and powerful beings paying attention to her. She did manage to get to the top of her department in her human work; then sorta targeted by some upper dark forces inside that same work; she was deemed worthy of wielding a holy sword, if briefly still counts; she got job offers from Marcone and Vadderung. And she caught the romantic interest of two professional/supernatural assassins, Kincaid and Gray (I dunno how much of Gray asking Murphy out was part of Dresden's plan in SK) and one really powerful Wizard of Chicago named Harry, who everybody sorta fears now. Obviously, in universe,
there's just something about this girl, LOL.
I could see Murphy being "promoted" or even "sponsored" to Valkyrie status.
And I personally like this part:
The beauty of this scenario is Murphy doesn't have to be in every book. She can be off doing jobs for Odin most of the time. When she gives Harry advice it could be practical advice because she is now a real player in the supernatural game.
Yes, and like I was saying before, maybe Murphy needs a bit of space from Harry, it can be good for her as a person/character, and this scenario could give that to her. So that way, when they find each other again, she'll have some agency of her own again, she'd be a player not a pawn in the game (and maybe Harry will also have his s**t somewhat together too). And they'd be more leveled too, either as friends, collaborators or romantic partners.
Personally, I'd like it if they rekindle the romance because I do think that if certain conditions improve, as in this scenario, they could be IT for each other. Anyway, regardless of my personal feelings about it, these two characters themselves feel they fit together and have stuck together time and again, so, good for them if they get a chance. A relationship could still potentially work. People don't have to be tied at the hips to care for another, they just have to be willing to show up when necessary. If lifespan difference or capability to face the non-human part of the world is not an issue anymore, which it won't, in this case, by virtue of Murphy becoming a Valkyrie, they have all the time to each go on about their own regular job/business and get together when the schedules match, it's not like there'd be any rush of biological clocks ticking. Could be alright. They could keep like this until the BAT, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
So for me, scenario number 3 is the winner of the ones proposed here, though there's probably other possibilities, or combinations of scenarios. But the one I have thought more about (or wished for) was something similar to number 3.
Oh, I wouldn't mind hearing about the long scenario you have on how scenario number 3 could happen @KurtinStGeorge.
The other scenario I have thought about was Murphy, after a brief time with Odin or maybe with that as the functioning mechanism to have her "alive", doesn't really work for him but ends up
working directly in service with the White God. But I wouldn't have idea how to get there.
OR Murphy coming back as Dresden's new security detail that Lara would have to hire for her new fiancé, since he seems to get in trouble all the time and doesn't have the protection of the White Council anymore. Lara already hires Monoc Security' services. And she needs Harry alive and well, probably, to keep her alliance with Winter. This could be hilarious and angsty.
Or just for giggles, give me Murphy being assigned to work with the boss' son, aka the mighty Thor, and having Dresden freak out about her hanging out with, yet again, another supernatural/non-human male that's not him.
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On another note, does anybody remember about that favor Lara owes to Murphy? You think Murphy cashed in her favor while Harry was gone or something? Do any of you remember that being mentioned again in the books, and do you think it could come to play in the future if it wasn't cashed already?