Thomas's cure: Bonea or Lhea?

[didymos]

Ah, but here in lies the rub, showing him how she did it, doesn't mean it would be or could be a cure.

No, but it may have led to one, per the text.

  So Harry sells his soul to her, she shows him how to do it, but it only lasts for an hour or two..  Then things go back to what they were..  Lea has his soul, but Harry has nothing all that useful.

None of that is in the text.

[Arjan]

Ah, but here in lies the rub, showing him how she did it, doesn't mean it would be or could be a cure.
That is why one doesn't bargain with the Fae..  No, she isn't lying exactly but at the same time she isn't telling him everything.  So Harry sells his soul to her, she shows him how to do it, but it only lasts for an hour or two..  Then things go back to what they were..  Lea has his soul, but Harry has nothing all that useful.

Also at that point it was useless. Susan needed the strength to resque the child and nogotiating for something that could only be usefull afterwards was rather pointless.

[ZhonLord]

It wasn't zippedy doo da on Harry's part, if you'll remember he drove himself into exhaustion and clinical depression trying to find a cure for Susan.  He also drove Bob crazy trying to find a cure...

Clarification: He has no answers, no clues, not even a starting point after all that work.  He's got a big fat zippo at the moment. That's what I meant by "zippidy doo da", Lea's info would be a far better starting point than the Nothing he has now.

...so if Lea could have provided one, he would have traded his soul for it in my opinion.Harry was shocked that Lea could do it if I remember correctly but I also seem to remember her saying it wasn't a cure.  Also you are dealing with two different things, in the case of Thomas, the possession of an actual demon, in the case of Susan it was more of an infection.

She never asked his soul for the info.  She asked him what he would be willing to offer in return, in a pretty standard Fae bargain.

Lea offered to show him how she did it.  Harry turned her down:

Thank you for posting that part of the book.  I will also point out that this offer of the bargain happened before Harry became the Winter Knight, and spent a far greater amount of time among the Fae.  He could probably make a damn good bargain with the experience and training he's had since that point in the series.

[Arjan]

Nothing he has now.She never asked his soul for the info.  She asked him what he would be willing to offer in return, in a pretty standard Fae bargain..

I did not take that literally. Mab did not ask for his literally soul either.

[Bad Alias]

I don't think Thomas becomes a Winter Knight.  Either a KOTC, or Summer Knight which could could create some problems for Dresden as Winter Knight

I could see Thomas becoming Summer Knight and that creating problems for Summer and Winter, who would then cause problems for Harry and Thomas, who would then cause problems for Summer and Winter ad infinitum.

On Harry's level of training/experience/competence or what have you, I'd say it's more a difference in emphasis than degree. As pointed out Harry's got/had Bob. This probably gave him information that most wizards don't have easy access to. He was trained in surprise close range magic combat without any focus items (blasting rod, etc.) by Mab. He's directly, deeply, and studiously examined Merlin's handy work. He's had lessons from a fallen angel.

But we also know that Harry is missing a lot of apprentice time. He was the youngest wizard for years. Eb barely taught him any magic. Harry had, at most, an eight year apprenticeship. (I think Justin took him in when he was 10. Eb taught him until he was 18). More reasonably 6 years. I'm guessing most wizard apprenticeships last into at least someone's mid-20's. We know he wasn't taught certain things that are traditionally taught.  Carlos talks about how "Old Ones" are "the last thing a formally trained apprentice learns about." He mentions that Harry's training wasn't formal.

Side note. Carlos says Old Ones are Outsiders that are inside, but inactive. ("caged, bound, and sleeping").

[bigdangmoose]

Yet another reason for Thomas to become the Winter Knight. He is already fighting those that are on the outside and those that are on the inside trying to bring those on the outside in. He would be in a good spot to keep fighting the oblivion war.

[Mira]

But we also know that Harry is missing a lot of apprentice time. He was the youngest wizard for years. Eb barely taught him any magic. Harry had, at most, an eight year apprenticeship. (I think Justin took him in when he was 10. Eb taught him until he was 18). More reasonably 6 years. I'm guessing most wizard apprenticeships last into at least someone's mid-20's. We know he wasn't taught certain things that are traditionally taught.  Carlos talks about how "Old Ones" are "the last thing a formally trained apprentice learns about." He mentions that Harry's training wasn't formal.

You are off a couple of years I think.  I think Harry was either eleven or twelve when Justin adopted him.  He was sixteen and killed him and was declared a full wizard, however sixteen is still considered a minor, that was the excuse for Eb to take over his guardianship.  Harry lived with Eb for three years, and as you say Eb taught him ethics but very little magic.  Harry was on his own at nineteen, so his intensive magic training was more like five years or less.  I also think the scope of
Justin's training was rather narrow, he was training him to be an enforcer, not a well rounded wizard.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Harry does have something to trade with Lea, knowledge.  Harry knows that two very powerful wizards handled the tainted athame that Bianca gave to Lea for Amoracchius.  It's quite possible that Bianca had no knowledge that she has giving Lea a tainted gift, she was just the fall guy.  Yes, I know Cowl probably has another name that Harry doesn't know, but does that really matter?  From the conversation Harry and Lea had in Ghost Story, the information Harry does have is something that Lea would very much like to know.  Also, seeing as Lea could probably only give Thomas temporary rest from his demon, it would be appropriate that Harry could only give Lea incomplete information about Cowl.   

[Mira]

Harry does have something to trade with Lea, knowledge.  Harry knows that two very powerful wizards handled the tainted athame that Bianca gave to Lea for Amoracchius.  It's quite possible that Bianca had no knowledge that she has giving Lea a tainted gift, she was just the fall guy.  Yes, I know Cowl probably has another name that Harry doesn't know, but does that really matter?  From the conversation Harry and Lea had in Ghost Story, the information Harry does have is something that Lea would very much like to know.  Also, seeing as Lea could probably only give Thomas temporary rest from his demon, it would be appropriate that Harry could only give Lea incomplete information about Cowl.

But she only gave him confidence according to Jim.. I realize that is a lot, but it isn't knowledge.

[KurtinStGeorge]

But she only gave him confidence according to Jim.. I realize that is a lot, but it isn't knowledge.

I think you misunderstood what I was alluding to.  (My fault for not being more explicit.)  In Ghost Story, Lea told Harry the reason she went all out against the Red Court at Chichen Itza was because she felt that she owed Harry for taking out Bianca.  Lea wanted revenge against Bianca because of the tainted blade she was given.  So, it seems to me that Lea would want the information Harry has that points to another party; who at the very least was working with Bianca to ensure Lea was given a Nemesis tainted item, or was solely responsible for the item being tainted. 

[Mira]

I think you misunderstood what I was alluding to.  (My fault for not being more explicit.)  In Ghost Story, Lea told Harry the reason she went all out against the Red Court at Chichen Itza was because she felt that she owed Harry for taking out Bianca.  Lea wanted revenge against Bianca because of the tainted blade she was given.  So, it seems to me that Lea would want the information Harry has that points to another party; who at the very least was working with Bianca to ensure Lea was given a Nemesis tainted item, or was solely responsible for the item being tainted.

I don't think Bianca was as bright as she thought she was, I believe she was being manipulated by others.  As far as Lea goes, it was her own lust for power that left her open.

[KurtinStGeorge]

1. I don't think Bianca was as bright as she thought she was, I believe she was being manipulated by others.
2. As far as Lea goes, it was her own lust for power that left her open.

1. I agree.
2. That is probably also correct.

The problem is, both of the points you make are irrelevant to what I am saying.  Lea is a powerful fae.  The fae tend to hold a grudge against those they believed have wronged them.  Lea will want payback; make that bloody payback, against Cowl; and probably Kumori as well, for being fully or partly responsible for giving her the tainted athame.       

[morriswalters]

Harry could certainly use that information to his advantage, if he had it. Does he?

[Mira]

1. I agree.
2. That is probably also correct.

The problem is, both of the points you make are irrelevant to what I am saying.  Lea is a powerful fae.  The fae tend to hold a grudge against those they believed have wronged them.  Lea will want payback; make that bloody payback, against Cowl; and probably Kumori as well, for being fully or partly responsible for giving her the tainted athame.     

I understand what you are saying, what I am saying is Lea needs to take responsibility for her own failings that nearly led to the ruin of the Winter Court. A desire to go after Cowl should be on it's own merits not for revenge for something she could have avoided in the first place.  Having said that I realize that the Fae don't see the world exactly like humans do.