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Indoctrination vs storytelling

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sayyadina:
There has been a trend over many years where certain political ideologies are inserted into established sci fi and fantasy series, thus hijacking them into pathways for indoctrination. Oftentimes ignoring fundamental established facts of how those established universes work. One of the strengths of the science fiction/fantasy genre has always been that it is good for allegorical storytelling and is a perhaps easier place for some forms of social commentary. The one universal for every existing property that has been hijacked is that the established universe’s rules are ignored. Thus these insertions are not in service of allegory but seem more designed for indoctrination. Various methods of propaganda have been used throughout human history and this would seem to fit that. Another hallmark of such propaganda is that it is situational and is discarded when less expedient or could interfere with profits

Examples
-pretty much everything about Star Trek Discovery flies in the face of Gene Roddenberry’s Star Trek. Too many examples to cite here.

-Finn in the movies put out by Kathleen Kennedy. Pretending as if Lando never existed. Making Finn into a racist charicature in the second movie. Shrinking him on the posters in China.

Damn shame all of it. He wasn’t really established as his own character, which does a disservice to both him and John Boyega who is quite talented.

-everything with the last 2 seasons of Doctor Who. The Doctor is an archetype...the boy who never grew up. The girl who never grew up is a separate archetype and the 2 are not interchangeable. From the start in the 60’s Doctor Who was an ensemble show. Barbara was always portrayed as a highly intelligent woman, and she was the hero of many episodes. She saw the solution that saved everyone in one of the first few stories. Both Romanas were equals to the Doctor. Then there is the great Sarah Jane Smith who had her own spinoff series. Martha Jones was a doctor herself and also saved the world. Plus many, many others. Likewise Captain Jack Harkness was a very popular character who wound up in a very successful spinoff series, Torchwood.

-In the upcoming Dune movie they recast Dr Kynes as a black woman since the actress playing his daughter Chani is black. This was done in the service of so called representation. Yet it is not at all consistent with the story or universe. Or even their own movie since a Spanish actor is playing Stilgar. The Bene Gesserit are a major power that is feared and revered. Lady Jessica’s decision to have a son is what makes the entire story possible. Fremen tribes are ruled by coequal male naib and female sayyadina. The inspiration for my own username since I fully understand and appreciate just how powerful women are in the Dune universe.

-In Wheel of Time one of the universal themes of the series is the relationship between the men and women. Men think the women are meddling busybodies who have a tendency to get in over their heads. Women think the men are wool headed fools who can’t get by without them. There are elements of both truth and falsehood in both povs. In reality the men and women are very flawed and human and both are very powerful and important in different ways. Rumor is that the tv series will be more focused on the women, which fits with a lot of the agenda driven shows Amazon has made (The Expanse went woke in the 2 seasons it’s been with Amazon. The last season of Man in the High Castle killed 2 prominent male characters for no reason, which destroyed the series since they were integral to the story.)

-There are similar rumors of agendas being inserted into the upcoming Lord of the Rings series. None of which fit at all into the world Tolkien created. The man who wrote a female character like Eowyn almost a hundred years ago...who found the valor she sought in battle when she killed the Witch King, second only to Sauron.

Original Star Wars pre 2012. Star Trek TOS, TNG, DS9 & VOY. Doctor Who Hartnell-Capaldi. Dune. Wheel of Time. Middle Earth. All examples of amazing storytelling with excellent characters. The modern hijacking of all is quite disturbing and seems to either be done by people who don’t understand these universe or who actively wish to us them to promote certain political agendas that are fundamentally racist or sexist. The fact of this can be seen by comparing original characters to their modern counterparts. Who are better characters? Uhura, Captain LaForge, Worf, Cassidy Yates, Geordie and Tuvok or Michael Burnham. Finn or Lando. Rey or Leia, Padme, Ahsoka, Mara, or Jaina. Can any of the Doctor Who Companions really hold a candle to Barbara, Sarah Jane Smith, the Romanas, or Martha Jones.

No modern characters really stand up as good characters since they are just there to serve an agenda. And that agenda seems to matter a whole lot more than good storytelling. For crying out loud they are now actively SEGREGATING ON STAR TREK DISCOVERY! Clearly the opposite of Roddenberry’s vision and the antithesis of everything I love about real Star Trek.

Agenda over storytelling clearly doesn’t work. The falling ratings and lack of merchandising tell that story. So why do these shows that seem to be more propaganda and indoctrination persist? Why does it seem like the only place to look for good storytelling is the past?

I’m also starting to wonder if part of what went wrong with Peace Talks/Battle Ground isn’t some of this same agenda over storytelling. Why Harry’s jokes just didn’t seem right. Some other vague oddness. That rather horrific ending. Or even some of the mindset that drives this agenda manifesting in real life since it holds that being competent is bad as is working hard and succeeding based on merits. Thoughts?

Why is it that so many companies are going down this route when it’s clear that customers don’t want this?

I just want good storytelling with relatable characters. Some actual escapism and fun.

And for those to whom it matters. No, I am not a man and I’m not white either. Also know more than my fare share of persecution from a wide variety of sources.

None of that should actually matter. The points I raise and arguments I present should be the only factors that have any bearing whatsoever on this. I really miss having new fun shows to enjoy. Having witnessed the destruction of so much that I love has been very heartbreaking.

Dina:
Well, I don't know. I think the line is not so clear as you think it is. For example, I had no problems with the inclusion of a non-binary character in Discovery but I was bothered but the speech about the correct use of pronouns. While I feel that pronouns are important and 21 century audiences need to understand them, I think that "in universe" they shouldn't be an issue, specially when they are many languages in the galaxy and the translator takes care of the differences. So, that speech felt forced.

On the same way, I am happy to see another Latino character in Picard but I don't like that sometimes he speaks Spanish. I mean, when he is talking to himself that is right, I imagine he speaks in the Federation language and sometimes he switches to basic Spanish, but when there are other characters present, they shouldn't "hear" the Spanish, as they are all wearing translators.

All that aside, I did not see indoctrination in DF and I don't know what you mean by the horrific ending of BG. Also, what do you mean by "Or even some of the mindset that drives this agenda manifesting in real life since it holds that being competent is bad as is working hard and succeeding based on merits."?That mindset seems very far away of the DF.

morriswalters:
Exercise your freedom of choice.  Don't consume.

If the writing is any good you can place any type of character in any position and make it work, if it isn't, well, a turd is a turd.

--- Quote ---I’m also starting to wonder if part of what went wrong with Peace Talks/Battle Ground isn’t some of this same agenda over storytelling. Why Harry’s jokes just didn’t seem right. Some other vague oddness. That rather horrific ending. Or even some of the mindset that drives this agenda manifesting in real life since it holds that being competent is bad as is working hard and succeeding based on merits. Thoughts?

--- End quote ---
We're sixteen or so books in. Sometimes the magic just goes away.  Sometimes ideas which seem good, aren't.

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