genoshwa

[toodeep]

So Listen warns Harry the Genoshwa (spelling may be wrong) is still around, despite Harry being sure he smashed him and trapped him in Hades.  As far as we know there is no way he could have gotten out of there.  He didn't escape with Nic.

So.... What if Nic is somehow hiding as the Genoshwa?

Oh, and while on the topic, the Genoshwa is essentially Grendel.  Interesting then that the Grendelkin that Harry and Gard fought seemed so different.  I mean he needed mead and a virgin to procreate.  Somehow I doubt Listen has that problem...

[Mira]

So Listen warns Harry the Genoshwa (spelling may be wrong) is still around, despite Harry being sure he smashed him and trapped him in Hades.  As far as we know there is no way he could have gotten out of there.  He didn't escape with Nic.

So.... What if Nic is somehow hiding as the Genoshwa?

Oh, and while on the topic, the Genoshwa is essentially Grendel.  Interesting then that the Grendelkin that Harry and Gard fought seemed so different.  I mean he needed mead and a virgin to procreate.  Somehow I doubt Listen has that problem...

I don't think Nic can shape change.  However while Genoshwa might get out of Hades, the coin might.  Listen isn't a Grendelkin so he wouldn't have that problem.

[Bad Alias]

Grendel was a bigfoot. Grendelkin are descendants of Grendel.

River is a bigfoot. Irwin is a descendant of River.

Is Irwin, anatomically, the same thing as the Grendelkin?

[Avernite]

Grendel was a bigfoot. Grendelkin are descendants of Grendel.

River is a bigfoot. Irwin is a descendant of River.

Is Irwin, anatomically, the same thing as the Grendelkin?

It would seem that way.

And no, I don't understand how the Genoskwa could possibly have survived his smashing.

[ZhonLord]

Grendel was a bigfoot. Grendelkin are descendants of Grendel.

River is a bigfoot. Irwin is a descendant of River.

Is Irwin, anatomically, the same thing as the Grendelkin?

Not even remotely.  Grendel was unique among his kind, assuming he actually is a bigfoot - though I believe he's more of a distant cousin of their kind whose magic operates in different ways. Irwin is a half-foot so to speak, with different physical and magical properties than a grendelkin.

As to the Genoskwa, if it has magic on par with River Shoulders, then I can easily see it finding its own way out of Hades even if it's injured.  Considering a half-foot has enough life force that a White Court vampire can keep on feeding and never kill him, a full Bigfoot probably has an impressive healing factor too.  The Genoskwa is alive and kicking, the only question is HOW it would get out of the underworld.

[groinkick]

It would seem that way.

And no, I don't understand how the Genoskwa could possibly have survived his smashing.

Well there are two things to consider.  The first is we really don't know the healing factor of the Genoskwa.  The second is he was using a Coin.  Marcone suffered a fatal injury, and the Coin healed him almost instantly.  It's possible that he could have survived purely because of the Coin, or a combination of his own abilities with the Coin.  On his own I think he'd have died for sure, but when you involve a Coin, it's tough to say

[grosyarin]

I might be missing something, but is there any reason the Genoskwa can't just open a portal out of the never never back into our world? Unless the underworld has some kind of barrier that prevents portals as opposed to the rest of the never never opening a way back seems like a really easy task for someone with the magical abilities of bigfoot

[Mira]

I might be missing something, but is there any reason the Genoskwa can't just open a portal out of the never never back into our world? Unless the underworld has some kind of barrier that prevents portals as opposed to the rest of the never never opening a way back seems like a really easy task for someone with the magical abilities of bigfoot

I imagine that Hades would make sure there is no opening to the Nevernever.  His inmates are there
for a reason and he hasn't allowed any to escape as far as we know.

[grosyarin]

I imagine that Hades would make sure there is no opening to the Nevernever.  His inmates are there
for a reason and he hasn't allowed any to escape as far as we know.

All his inmates are ghosts though so I don't think he has to worry about them escaping because they don't really have a body. Its been a while since I read ghost story but I remember Harry casting through Molly and not by himself so I don't think ghosts can open portals and run away. Therer is also the myth of Orpheus so we know living creatures can get out of the underworld, another example of that is Harry himself just getting out through the gate he opened beforehand

[Mira]

All his inmates are ghosts though so I don't think he has to worry about them escaping because they don't really have a body. Its been a while since I read ghost story but I remember Harry casting through Molly and not by himself so I don't think ghosts can open portals and run away. Therer is also the myth of Orpheus so we know living creatures can get out of the underworld, another example of that is Harry himself just getting out through the gate he opened beforehand

Orpheus is a bit of a different story though.  His lover died and he traveled into Hades to try and
get her back.  He sang and play a very sad song and Hades actually agreed that he could take her
back with him, but he couldn't look back at her until they got out.. Of course he did and it didn't turn out well.  He was very much alive, though if I remember correctly he was killed rather gruesomely some time after that happened, but he was never allowed down into Hades again.

[toodeep]

I might be missing something, but is there any reason the Genoskwa can't just open a portal out of the never never back into our world?

Yes, the underworld has barriers.  The only place that could be gated to from the vaults was the place at the beginning of the challenges - where they came in.  That's why they all had to run back there and hold the bank while they were inside, instead of just going in there, doing the heist, and existing from inside the vault itself.

It is worth realizing the if functional the Genoskwa could probably open a gate, so escape isn't 100% impossible but honestly it just seems really unlikely and against the story there.  That means there's something special about the Genoskwa being back - and I think it has to do with Nic hiding.

[toodeep]

Not even remotely.  Grendel was unique among his kind, assuming he actually is a bigfoot - though I believe he's more of a distant cousin of their kind whose magic operates in different ways. Irwin is a half-foot so to speak, with different physical and magical properties than a grendelkin.

River seems to indicate that Grendel was pretty much just the Genoskwa of his time and place.  It sounds like Grendel might be older than River, but they were literally alive at the same time, and possibly knew each other from the sound of it.  Grendel's followers stayed in Europe, while River's people came to America.  It sounds like they are intimately related.

How does that square with Grendelkin breeding with humans, needing virgins and mead?  Shouldn't all of their offspring be getting more and more human like Irwin as they do that?  Maybe the virgin and mead is some kind of rite to prevent that?

[BrainFireBob]

Not even remotely.  Grendel was unique among his kind, assuming he actually is a bigfoot - though I believe he's more of a distant cousin of their kind whose magic operates in different ways. Irwin is a half-foot so to speak, with different physical and magical properties than a grendelkin.

As to the Genoskwa, if it has magic on par with River Shoulders, then I can easily see it finding its own way out of Hades even if it's injured.  Considering a half-foot has enough life force that a White Court vampire can keep on feeding and never kill him, a full Bigfoot probably has an impressive healing factor too.  The Genoskwa is alive and kicking, the only question is HOW it would get out of the underworld.

River is overt that Grendel is one of his people- River states that his tribe fled "across the ice" rather than join Grendel's war on the humans, and notes he himself was born on that journey.

Irwin was raised with plenty of food et al. He might also be infertile. We don't know.

[BrainFireBob]

All his inmates are ghosts though so I don't think he has to worry about them escaping because they don't really have a body. Its been a while since I read ghost story but I remember Harry casting through Molly and not by himself so I don't think ghosts can open portals and run away. Therer is also the myth of Orpheus so we know living creatures can get out of the underworld, another example of that is Harry himself just getting out through the gate he opened beforehand

They are not all ghosts, check your mythology.

The Titans are the big one, but there's also a few characters, like Theseus's buddy that tried to carry off Persephone.

I've always though that Tartarus was the other side of Demonreach for that reason- and why Hades has such an interest in the Warden. It's a backdoor to his place.

[groinkick]

They are not all ghosts, check your mythology.

The Titans are the big one, but there's also a few characters, like Theseus's buddy that tried to carry off Persephone.

I've always though that Tartarus was the other side of Demonreach for that reason- and why Hades has such an interest in the Warden. It's a backdoor to his place.

Perhaps Hades handed over that particular power....  Tartarus may be Demon Reach...  Hades may have been one of the Wardens, perhaps the first.  The Sidhe didn't always protect the Outer Gates.