Something Occured to Me as to Why the Senior Council is so Afraid of Harry

[morriswalters]

There's also a good one about what he's learned from Lea as his godmother. I can't remember if it was from SK or CD. If it was SK, it's when he first talks to the Summer Lady in the rooftop garden. If it's CD, it's when he talks to another Summer Lady in another garden.

You should link, I get confused by all the Gardens.

Which Microfiction was that from?  Was that from Eb's journal?

One of these I think.
    “Christmas Eve”
    “Mike”
    “Journal”
    “Goodbye”
    “Job Placement”
    “Everything the Light Touches”
    “The Good People”

[Bad Alias]

You should link, I get confused by all the Gardens.One of these I think.

Apparently I do too. That's probably why I can't remember which one it was.

@groinkick: It's one of the microfictions you can find on Jim's website. You really should read them. They're quick and easy. Telling you anymore about that story is super spoilery and it only takes a about 4 minutes to read.

[Arjan]

There is no doubt that Harry was programed as a weapon of some type.  It's explicit in the text. First in Summer Knight.Then again in Ghost Story.And last in the microfiction JournalIf you want to do lasting mental damage to a child, Jim's treatment of young Harry is exactly how you would go about it. What I'm suggesting is that the destroyer in the microfiction is a Norse being called a berserker. this has nothing to do with if  Harry is good or evil. It speaks specifically to the question, why is the Council so afraid of Harry.

According to Eb in peace talks Vadderung employs many berserkers. I think they are something different in the dresdenverse.

[morriswalters]

Apparently I do too. That's probably why I can't remember which one it was.

@groinkick: It's one of the microfictions you can find on Jim's website. You really should read them. They're quick and easy. Telling you anymore about that story is super spoilery and it only takes a about 4 minutes to read.

This?

Aurora turned her lovely face fully toward me and regarded me with deep, quiet eyes. "Yes." Unease gnawed at my belly as she continued. "The strong conquer and the weak are conquered. That is Winter. That is what you have learned." She leaned closer and said, quietly emphatic, "That is what makes you dangerous. Do you see?"

According to Eb in peace talks Vadderung employs many berserkers. I think they are something different in the dresdenverse.

I have no idea at this point.  Freaking out and maiming your friends seem to be a-okay and perfectly normal. And if you have remorse that it makes everything fine. As a fictional world view that leaves me a little cold.  If it isn't going to resolve into to some type of redemption arc then it would seem to be merely torture porn. I don't need that.

[Arjan]

This?I have no idea at this point.  Freaking out and maiming your friends seem to be a-okay and perfectly normal. And if you have remorse that it makes everything fine. As a fictional world view that leaves me a little cold.  If it isn't going to resolve into to some type of redemption arc then it would seem to be merely torture porn. I don't need that.

In the earliest sources berserkers just seem to be the champions and bodyguards of kings, later witters ran away with it to start with early medieval christian writers. Jim has a lot of freedom to interpret what berserkers are in his universe.

From what I have read in Icelandic sagas such behavior would not be just accepted and without consequences and it was never described as ok.

[Mira]

In the earliest sources berserkers just seem to be the champions and bodyguards of kings, later witters ran away with it to start with early medieval christian writers. Jim has a lot of freedom to interpret what berserkers are in his universe.

From what I have read in Icelandic sagas such behavior would not be just accepted and without consequences and it was never described as ok.

I wouldn't call what happened with Harry the same as a berserker though.  He did go berserk, but there was a reason for it, his grief on top of the extreme stress he had been under.  No one is saying hurting his friends who were trying to stop him from killing Rudolph was okay, least of all Harry.  Saying it was understandable isn't the same as saying it was okay. 

[groinkick]

You should link, I get confused by all the Gardens.One of these I think.
    “Christmas Eve”
    “Mike”
    “Journal”
    “Goodbye”
    “Job Placement”
    “Everything the Light Touches”
    “The Good People”

So according to Morgan he wasn't sure if Dresden had been molded into a "creature" of Nemesis...  I remember Eb calling Drakul "The Creature"......  Both are Starborns, and apparently this "creature" is a Destroyer.....  Interesting...  Me wonders if Elaine who may also be a Starborn will turn out to be this Destroyer.

[morriswalters]

This is my last post on this topic.

Where she had lain, there was a symbol scorched into the crates as if by a white-hot stylus. Three triangles, interlocking. The valknut. The knot of the fallen warriors. Symbol of Odin. I stared at the empty crates. Her blood was still on them, drying black. Something dark began to stir, down deep. Something angry.

“Nothing has changed,” said a soft, slightly slurred voice behind me. “She’s gone. She isn’t coming back.” I turned and found Miss Gard sitting on a pile of crates. There was a bottle of whiskey in her hand. There were four empties at her feet. She looked like she’d been through almost as much as I had. I closed my eyes for a second. I was bone tired. I felt the rage down there.

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (pp. 364-365). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Obviously the anger and rage didn't disappear into the abyss. That's how it works. It's always there waiting for it's time in the sunlight. Anyway.

[BrainFireBob]

I disagree, morris, with the blank slate assessment.

It is possible that Harry is a fine thrall laid over a weapon- or that the weapon is a fine thrall slumbering inside of Harry. It would use the Chekov's gun on fine thralls.

But I rather lean towards the whole choice side of the series being that Justin may have intended to forge a weapon, but Harry's nature was resistant- so what resulted is someone with high endurance for slugfests, high pain tolerance, and an absolute knowledge/lack of hesitation to "go for the throat" if needed- but not a berserker.

Harry does have pretty classic PTSD after Susan/what the Red Court did to him.

I think it's either a rhetorical device- see how far he's been pushed!?- for tension, or an excuse for the whole Darth Harry/Mirror Mirror universe. It also maybe will come up as why he has Soulfire/is employed/an agent of an archangel- even if that archangel is the archangel of vengeance. He keeps making the same choice to not become warped.

[forumghost]

It's also important to point out that Harry does suffer the side effects of Black Magic abuse from killing Justin, so he has the same problems with trying not to Backslide that Molly does- except instead of "Just a little bit of mind bending couldn't hurt" it's "Kill it with Fire and Righteous Anger".

[groinkick]

There is no doubt that Harry was programed as a weapon of some type. 

I don't believe he was programmed to be a weapon as much created, born.  Justin wanted to create a Thrall, and based on Morgan's journal it appears he could become a vessel of some kind for Nemesis, but I don't think he was programmed as described.  I think he's a weapon by creation who has the potential to fight evil, or to be a force of it.

[Bad Alias]

This?

That's the one.

Freaking out and maiming your friends seem to be a-okay and perfectly normal. And if you have remorse that it makes everything fine. As a fictional world view that leaves me a little cold.  If it isn't going to resolve into to some type of redemption arc then it would seem to be merely torture porn. I don't need that.

I think it's more about stopping before he "went too far." Sanya is willing to sacrifice his body to prevent Harry from murdering Rudolph. I also think Harry is going to have to do more than just feel remorse. We know he's going to do that more than anyone would like. He does it to the point of being overscrupulous. He has to be a good person in addition, which he mostly is.

[Mira]

I think it's more about stopping before he "went too far." Sanya is willing to sacrifice his body to prevent Harry from murdering Rudolph. I also think Harry is going to have to do more than just feel remorse. We know he's going to do that more than anyone would like. He does it to the point of being overscrupulous. He has to be a good person in addition, which he mostly is.

Yes, and that is what Butters reminded him of after the Sword burn brought him back to his senses.  Both Sanya and Butters realize and understand that in that moment Harry simply lost it.  I believe that as you say we will need to see more than just remorse, I think in the future Harry will have to work on emotional control even harder.  Kind of a Star Wars Jedi thing, when one lets one's emotions get out of control it is easy to go down the dark side..

[Dina]

Yes, and we know JB likes Star Wars. Still, even for siths there is a chance of redemption.