Is Harry downplaying Mabs protection?

[TrueMonk]

This was sparked by comments that Harry was vulnerable because he is no longer part of the white council.

I think Harry is underestimating what Mab would do if someone killed him. Of course her settling the score with them won't help him, but it won't play out nice for the killers either.

She has to balance the scales, so even if e.g. Marcone would trick Harry into breaking the accords and make Mab kill him, I think Mab would do something similar to Marcone, e.g. she could have forced him to kill Hendricks and loose power in some way.

What do you think? Do you agree with Harry's assessment that of her knight can't protect himself she won't care?

[b4utoo]

Thought it was more obvious. I didn't think this was a thing that need to be asked. Mabs more of a tough love type. She will protect what's hers. I believe she's more like White Court. She takes care of things indirectly. But to her it's Direct in her own way.

[morriswalters]

It's a thing you can only know after the fact.

[Avernite]

Harry is Mab's vassal, and I think he indeed has no clue what that means.

Mab is loyal to her vassals, as her vassals should be to her. She delegates, sure, and as Knight Harry's delegated task is being a badass, but he is still HERS. Hers to protect, hers to sacrifice, hers to punish. Not someone else's to punish or sacrifice.

Random thug comes up to him? Harry's job to deal with. White Council comes up to him? NO! Harry bugs the White Council? Please fill out form A-Z on Mab's index of requirements, and she may punish him according to your wish. She may also reward him, if it was her will that he bug the Council. Or she may punish him far more, like smash him flat.
Now, there IS the way out of line option - if a Mab vassal is egregiously outside what she wants, she may decide to sacrifice said pawn rather than pay to extend her protection (especially random mook faeries get this a lot, also because lots of them ARE way out of line). But fundamentally, it's her pawn, so hers to sacrifice.

[Arjan]

It's a thing you can only know after the fact.

Though the strange way the council is currently handling Harry has something to do with Mab's protection. He either is a warlock and then they should kill him or he is not and they should keep him.

I think Mab expects Harry to defend himself against normal threats but will help if the white council tries to kill him.  Unless Harry did something stupid to provoke it.

But Mab is somewhat friendlier to Harry now. She did help him against Marcone and her attitude was very different from that at the end of Skin Game.

[TheCuriousFan]

Though the strange way the council is currently handling Harry has something to do with Mab's protection. He either is a warlock and then they should kill him or he is not and they should keep him.

I think Mab expects Harry to defend himself against normal threats but will help if the white council tries to kill him.  Unless Harry did something stupid to provoke it.

But Mab is somewhat friendlier to Harry now. She did help him against Marcone and her attitude was very different from that at the end of Skin Game.

That one's confirmed, fear of Mab's response is the reason for the White Council not just obliterating him by WoJ.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Mab can communicate with the White Council if she wants to do so, even though her normal style is to remain distant, enigmatic and scary.  The point I'm trying to make is that Mab could contact the Senior Council without Harry's knowledge if she thought that was best course of action to take.  She could also send Harry to Edinburgh as her messenger / ambassador if she wanted to do so.  (That could be fun.)  So either directly; not likely, or by be more subtle means, Mab can indicate Harry's status and position within her court, and by extension, the value she places on him and the likely price they will pay for making a move against her Knight.

At a certain point, Harry is on his own.  If he breaks the rules he has to answer for that.  However, as Lea once told Harry that she watched over and protected him from threats he didn't know existed, Mab may offer Harry protection by shear intimidation and Harry may never realize she's been doing it. 

[Ed0517]

I'd say there is probably a difference between The White Council, Accords Signatories, taking out an Emissary/Agent of Faerie, a Signatory,  and just some wizard or the like whacking Harry. The Council, as a body, has obligations and duties. A signatory attacking the emissary of another signatory  can be construed as an Act of War. Harry was on the field of battle with his Queen. The WC cannot be seen as ordering an execution for acts done on the battlefield just because they are against WC laws. Most signers will not deem Harry's action wrong.  Harry is there as Winter Knight. So they can expel him from their group, but not persecute him for those acts. Next time, may be different. But it could be a sign of disrespect to Mab to kill her people. Makes her look weak. Can't have that.

Now, say, the Genoskwa killing Harry might be seen as a personal thing between them, not involving the Forest Peoples.

[Arjan]

I'd say there is probably a difference between The White Council, Accords Signatories, taking out an Emissary/Agent of Faerie, a Signatory,  and just some wizard or the like whacking Harry. The Council, as a body, has obligations and duties. A signatory attacking the emissary of another signatory  can be construed as an Act of War. Harry was on the field of battle with his Queen. The WC cannot be seen as ordering an execution for acts done on the battlefield just because they are against WC laws. Most signers will not deem Harry's action wrong.  Harry is there as Winter Knight. So they can expel him from their group, but not persecute him for those acts. Next time, may be different. But it could be a sign of disrespect to Mab to kill her people. Makes her look weak. Can't have that.

Now, say, the Genoskwa killing Harry might be seen as a personal thing between them, not involving the Forest Peoples.

The Genoskwa is not one of river shoulders people, he is not responsible.

Mab is not responsible for Harry's private stupidities but she has responsibilities to Harry as her vassal. In a sense pushing him out makes it more difficult for the council to kill him. It is more difficult to put him in an impossible situation with conflicting loyalties and responsibilities that can be exployted by the council.

[ZhonLord]

Now, say, the Genoskwa killing Harry might be seen as a personal thing between them, not involving the Forest Peoples.

Especially since River Shoulders directly explained that the Genoskwa is a sort of "black sheep" among the Forest People, one the rest of them estrange themselves from.

As to the main topic, don't forget that there are in fact ways to hide from the Fae, same as there are from the Council - but the Council has an easier time finding those places than a Fae does.  Look at Bob.  He knows how to kill IMMORTALS.  He contains some of the most dangerous information ever as far as Fae are concerned, and for a long while Mab was hunting him in order to kill him.  It wasn't until she started taking an interest in Harry that she set her vendetta for the skull aside, which means he's effectively hidden from her for DECADES at least.

It's true that Mab's wrath should Harry die will be as deadly as any Death Curse he could devise; but don't forget, as far as the Queen of Air and Darkness is concerned, if he can't survive "petty" attempts to kill him then he's not worthy of the Mantle.  She won't lift a hand to help him because she needs to make sure he's strong enough to fight the Outer War - and that means tough love, all the time, with almost no room for compassion or assistance.  If Harry dies, his killer will wish they'd died too, but that does little good for Harry himself.

The White Council's protection was nothing to sniff at either.  The magic-using community either doesn't know the council exists, or constantly looks to them as a governing body that is to be feared and kept away from oneself as much as possible.  People who know about the Council obey the Seven Laws because they don't want Wardens coming after them. Even most of the Paranet is in this situation.  So when the Council declares someone their enemy, any magic user now has to decide between helping a good man and potentially offending the people who will send a cloak&sword after their heads.  Harry's effectively been isolated from a portion of his allies - not all, there are always those who defy the Council - but a significant number.  In that regard he HAS gained a vulnerability, even if his status as Winter Knight and the impact of his recent actions mitigates that.

[Arjan]

Especially since River Shoulders directly explained that the Genoskwa is a sort of "black sheep" among the Forest People, one the rest of them estrange themselves from.

As to the main topic, don't forget that there are in fact ways to hide from the Fae, same as there are from the Council - but the Council has an easier time finding those places than a Fae does.  Look at Bob.  He knows how to kill IMMORTALS.  He contains some of the most dangerous information ever as far as Fae are concerned, and for a long while Mab was hunting him in order to kill him.  It wasn't until she started taking an interest in Harry that she set her vendetta for the skull aside, which means he's effectively hidden from her for DECADES at least.

I do not know how actively Mab was hunting him. Bob might have been more afraid than necessary. Mab new about Bob's location in Cold Days and maybe since dead beat or earlier when she was doing Lea's rounds. She was keeping an eye on Harry so maybe even earlier. She left Bob alone when she was with Butters as well.

It's true that Mab's wrath should Harry die will be as deadly as any Death Curse he could devise; but don't forget, as far as the Queen of Air and Darkness is concerned, if he can't survive "petty" attempts to kill him then he's not worthy of the Mantle.  She won't lift a hand to help him because she needs to make sure he's strong enough to fight the Outer War - and that means tough love, all the time, with almost no room for compassion or assistance.  If Harry dies, his killer will wish they'd died too, but that does little good for Harry himself.

It does. It works as a detterent especially for those people Harry can not handle like the senior council.

[Bad Alias]

I do not know how actively Mab was hunting him. Bob might have been more afraid than necessary.

I think that's probably correct.

As I've said in other threads, I think Harry has some degree of protection by being the Winter Knight. It's probably less than the average Council member has, and it's definitely less than Harry had when he was both Winter Knight and a member of the Council. In the supernatural community, it's all about deterrence. With or without the Council, Harry has built up a lot of that.