Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?

[Hankthemoose]

Marcone was a vanilla mortal before he picked up Namshiel. My understanding was that the amount of power someone could access was a matter of genetics. If Marcone had the kind of inborn talent that Harry had, it should have manifested on its own, before Namshiel. Marcone would have been summoning monsters, ripping holes in reality, or doing other mad sorcerer stuff on accident his entire life.

I think the easiest excuse is that Namshiel somehow "gave" Marcone a big magical talent, but there's a problem with that. All of the fallen angels are ancient and know basically everything there is to know—presumably also about magic. So then, all of the Knights of the Blackened Denarius should be slinging mad spells like pros, especially the smarter carriers. Instead, you've got guys like snake boy the one-hit wonder and Tessa's mob of oddly transformed goons.

So... what gives? Any ideas?

[TheCuriousFan]

Marcone was a vanilla mortal before he picked up Namshiel. My understanding was that the amount of power someone could access was a matter of genetics. If Marcone had the kind of inborn talent that Harry had, it should have manifested on its own, before Namshiel. Marcone would have been summoning monsters, ripping holes in reality, or doing other mad sorcerer stuff on accident his entire life.

I think the easiest excuse is that Namshiel somehow "gave" Marcone a big magical talent, but there's a problem with that. All of the fallen angels are ancient and know basically everything there is to know—presumably also about magic. So then, all of the Knights of the Blackened Denarius should be slinging mad spells like pros, especially the smarter carriers. Instead, you've got guys like snake boy the one-hit wonder and Tessa's mob of oddly transformed goons.

So... what gives? Any ideas?

No clue, Namshiel is the magic nerd of the denarians but efficiency has limits and any way of boosting your power from an outside source like Sells seems like it should be standard for any denarian that cares about using magic.

[Arjan]

No clue, Namshiel is the magic nerd of the denarians but efficiency has limits and any way of boosting your power from an outside source like Sells seems like it should be standard for any denarian that cares about using magic.

The host must have some talent and the denarian must be interested in offering the education and training. Ursiel just want to hit people and why invest the effort if you can tempt the host with some stupid battle form?

I think most of the hosts don’t get even a small fraction of what they could get. The purpose of the denarian is not to make the host stronger, that is a side effect. It is to corrupt the host and damn him.

Namshiel likes magic so that is his way in.

[Mira]

The host must have some talent and the denarian must be interested in offering the education and training. Ursiel just want to hit people and why invest the effort if you can tempt the host with some stupid battle form?

I think most of the hosts don’t get even a small fraction of what they could get. The purpose of the denarian is not to make the host stronger, that is a side effect. It is to corrupt the host and damn him.

Namshiel likes magic so that is his way in.

They use the host to achieve their goals whatever they may be.  Even Nic who thinks he has a great partnership with Andriel most likely was brainwashed at some point.  Yes, he had goals too, which made him vulnerable to taking up the coin, but he very mistaken if he really thinks he is totally calling the shots.  I think he realized that when Deidre died.

[Arjan]

They use the host to achieve their goals whatever they may be.  Even Nic who thinks he has a great partnership with Andriel most likely was brainwashed at some point.  Yes, he had goals too, which made him vulnerable to taking up the coin, but he very mistaken if he really thinks he is totally calling the shots.  I think he realized that when Deidre died.

I do not think he realises it even now or if he did that voice was quickly silenced. The whole attack on Michaels house had more than one function. Part of it was to put all the blame for everything outside and let Nicodemus and his wife work together.

[The_Sibelis]

From the description of the battle between Marcone and Ethniu I didn't get the impression he was now a magical heavy so much as he was extremely efficient, maybe leaning heavily on Namshiel for the fight itself. It's entirely possible he had an average sized tank but never learned a lick of magic before then too.

[Bad Alias]

Hasn't Jim said everyone has some magical ability?

1. Marcone probably has enough magical muscle for Namshiel to work with.
2. I didn't get the impression that Marcone was using a lot of magical muscle. He was doing very advanced stuff and probably doing it very efficiently.
3. Every Denarian gives the bearer some amount of magical ability. Changing shape is a magical ability. It's just not necessarily wizardry. This means it's at least possible that a Denarian can fuel some level of spell work.
4. Namshiel's the wizardry Denarian, so if anyone can fuel spell work, it's him. He'd also be focused on it.
5. Marcone could have done something to get magical muscle if he didn't have a sufficient amount.

[forumghost]

It's because Marcone actually studies and learns how to do magic, that's why. He doesn't have any real power to work with, but that's whatever, Namshiel can provide the power for him, just like Bob did for Butters.

Harry meanwhile has the power and talent to perform magic himself, but he'd rather coast through on talent alone instead of actually training and learning.

If you have natural talent, and actually put effort in as well, you get Eb.

[TheCuriousFan]

It's because Marcone actually studies and learns how to do magic, that's why. He doesn't have any real power to work with, but that's whatever, Namshiel can provide the power for him, just like Bob did for Butters.

Harry meanwhile has the power and talent to perform magic himself, but he'd rather coast through on talent alone instead of actually training and learning.

If you have natural talent, and actually put effort in as well, you get Eb.

Well Eb is that + a few centuries of practice.

[Hankthemoose]

It's because Marcone actually studies and learns how to do magic, that's why. He doesn't have any real power to work with, but that's whatever, Namshiel can provide the power for him, just like Bob did for Butters.

Harry meanwhile has the power and talent to perform magic himself, but he'd rather coast through on talent alone instead of actually training and learning.

If you have natural talent, and actually put effort in as well, you get Eb.

Harry is constantly described as a fanatical magic nerd by literally everyone except Harry himself. Saying he coasts in any way directly contradicts the books. Harry thinks of himself as a magical blunt object, but that's just his own perception of himself—and it's what Mab is trying to get him to embrace with her "training".

Especially in the earlier books, we get lots of focus on how Harry's only hobby is perfecting his magical skills, and how he's a magical expert. Whenever his relative skill level compared to other wizards comes up, it is pointed out that he's considered "too young to be taken seriously". At the same time, we see him constantly tinker with and come up with new spells, the occasional potion, better, shinier enchantments, and hellishly complicated voodoo representations of entire cities.

Thinking that Harry doesn't focus on training and learning means fundamentally misunderstanding the character. He's obsessed.

[forumghost]

And yet we constantly get shown how every magic user in the series is better then him.

Early Harry says he's gòod at tracking spells.
Molly -Harry's apprentice with a fraction of the experience- tells us 10 books later that he sucks at it.

Same with Carlos, who is again, far less experienced than Harry, and yet he can pull things apart from the atomic level for no effort, and all Harry has learned to do is explode things bigger.

How about Luccio? We see her from back during her young and reckless days, and she can already do those lazer beams without a focus, whereas in Changes Harry struggles to do one with a focus.

Marcone has apparently zoomed so far past Harry in skill that he can now do something that Harry would struggle to manage after a century of dedicated study (teleportation) and he's been learning for less than a decade, and started with zero magical talent.

Literally every Magic-user in the series has absolutely rocketed past Harry in terms of skills in the past 4-5 books or so. The only thing Harry can do is make a bigger boom.

[Arjan]

Or it is not Marcone at all but everything magic is provided by Namshiel

[Mira]

Or it is not Marcone at all but everything magic is provided by Namshiel

Exactly, Marcone has all the cunning and ambition to make the most of Namshiel's magic, it is very much a partnership made in Hell.

[morriswalters]

Measure Harry's strength by the bodies of his enemies.  He's changed the nature of a Fallen's Shadow,  survived death, killed a whole species, forged a bond with the Caretaker of the prison of the Gods, imprisoned a Titan, caused the death of two Faerie Queens and fought and won against three Outsider nobles.  Smoke that Carlos. You got you butt handed to you by an Ice Princess.

[Dina]

I agree is a thing of efficiency. I suspect that in raw power levels. Harry is still stronger. So I really need him to begin studying and getting better.