Author Topic: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?  (Read 19818 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #75 on: December 12, 2020, 12:09:26 PM »
Please no... They would be.... Ugh.
On topic, I still have no explanation why Namshiel can sling so much power around using a "plain old vanilla" man like Harry describes Marcone. If the Fallen could do that then they'll not need any practitioners to carry them around. Supposedly, most what they can do is teaching techniques and turbo boost using Hellfire, so the energy isn't coming from them, but from the host. Remember that Tessa was described as a sorceress. With presumably centuries of tutoring from Namshiel. Still, her combat repertoire was quite limited. Harry soulgazed Marcone and shook his hand. Nothing.

But they do need plain old vanilla humans to carry them around.  Without them they are useless coins in a sack.  However once they touch and then gain access to the brains of their chosen, they take over.  That is why Harry was so unusual and why Michael at first didn't believe him,

Offline grogleberry

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2020, 12:34:16 AM »
Please no... They would be.... Ugh.
On topic, I still have no explanation why Namshiel can sling so much power around using a "plain old vanilla" man like Harry describes Marcone. If the Fallen could do that then they'll not need any practitioners to carry them around. Supposedly, most what they can do is teaching techniques and turbo boost using Hellfire, so the energy isn't coming from them, but from the host. Remember that Tessa was described as a sorceress. With presumably centuries of tutoring from Namshiel. Still, her combat repertoire was quite limited. Harry soulgazed Marcone and shook his hand. Nothing.

Hello.

I'm new.

One could imagine it working a bit like the raid on Hades' Vault.
Maybe Vadderung can't give Murphy back, but she could be stolen. He does the narrative version of tripping and dropping the keys to Valhalla, says "I sure hope I didn't drop anything important." before scurrying off, studiously avoiding meeting Harry's eyes behind his bad veil.

Offline Dina

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2020, 04:39:57 AM »
Welcome!
I laughed at that idea  :D
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2021, 07:58:10 AM »
I don't agree with the idea of Harry being lazy.  Maybe he didn't work on veils as much as he could have, as he was not very good, and worked on his strong points. But he got better. He does not need his blasting rod as much as he once did. He appropriated Luccio's laser after he saw it in action. There's a fire refinement Ascher could have used - with the same power and a smaller cross section, she punches THRU Harry's shield, instead of it being reflected.  He worked nights and weekends for... 2 or 3 months, was it?  for that forcefield crystal Molly used on Demonreach. Eb seemed impressed. Even Mai did not seem sure she could breach it. Little Chicago was not simple, and took a lot of time and effort. Not a lazy man's tool.

      We see how Ascher was massively boosted - she was burning Wardens from within, and the finger torch Harry said was, what, a century off?, while the Gatekeeper said Harry was the most powerful AND TALENTED of his generation - both terms. She was taught by Lasciel. Some Fallen may give their vessels/vassals more power - also recall when Nic offered her coin to Harry,  Harry asked why he should believe Nic would let him leave. Nic replied with the coin 'I doubt I could stop you" - as in, with Lasciel providing as much info as she does to Harry he could blow Nic halfway to Wacker Drive if he wanted. Nic may not be hurt, but he'd then be in no position to stop Harry from strolling out the door.  The Fallen were angels... and Harry seems to imply in Battle Ground that if they could trick the enemy army into coming too close to Michael's, Michael's security force would blow them away, as if it is no contest. So, angels are hugely powered. So, maybe most hosts only give their vassals 10% of what they can - what if Thorny and Lasciel give 25%?  Their coinholders would be much stronger.   And Thorny and Lasciel seem to be some of the thinkers of the Denarians, unlike, say, Magog or Ursiel. And you match up the coin to the recipient if you can - you want a good partnership. Magog is force and smash, Ursiel seems similar - plus a genoskwa is probably not high on potential for magic.  Harry and Marcone are thinkers. Well, Harry, when he stops to think.

You only soulgaze once, right? The Marcone soulgaze was before we see any coins... and it did not even tell Harry Marcone is probably not his real name... he may have some small aptitude. Harry could have told if he was a practicioner, but maybe not if the talent had withered .. to be revived by a coin.  His teleportation.... maybe it is just a different, temporary method of making a Way. A localized time-space warp. Picture a flat map. NYC to Maui is... 6000 miles, say. Fold it, they touch. He folded space. Nice trick - and maybe he is only really good at that one trick. He learned one really well, the others are crude. 10,000 hours to be a master? Well, maybe he spent 1000 on one little trick....

As for Merlin and Demonreach being impossibly magic-dense? Um, maybe impossible for HUMANS, recall in the myths, Merlin is usually only human on his mother's side, his father an incubus or spirit. Our rules may not apply.   

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2021, 08:33:16 AM »
Quote
Nice trick - and maybe he is only really good at that one trick. He learned one really well, the others are crude. 10,000 hours to be a master? Well, maybe he spent 1000 on one little trick....
I fear not the man who has performed a thousand kicks one time, but the man who has done one kick a thousand times.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2021, 09:52:00 AM »
I think it is super unrealistic that the other fallen does not listen through the shadows also. I mean, if one of them can why are the others not doing it? Why did Marcone not just grow into a super big bear and fight head on?

A bit more serious, I do not understand why it seems so odd that the fallen are different, when all the fallen we have seen so far have been. I think it would be very strange indeed if Thorned Namshiel did not have some other advantage when he cannot listen through any shadow that he wants or turn into a giant bear. It could seem like that advantage is having access to magical power of some sort.

In regards to Hendricks death; I think there is a very very large difference in between being speared by Gungner (Odins spear) and just getting ones neck broken. I definately think it is possible that Marcone could have been killed by that.

On Harry being lazy or not. All these guys you are comparing him to has had teachers, Harry has been self-studying since he was a teenager. My guess is that Eb looked at all his talent and thought that he needed to learn why to use it and not be an even more powerfull wizard than he allready was. Since then Harry have not trusted any that could teach him. Like if I studied martial arts at home all day, but with limited access to training materials, of course I would be having challenges keeping up with a guy who studies under a master, like Ramirez.

Who should Harry have used as a teacher earlier? There could definately be some that I have just missed.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2021, 04:36:20 PM »
Who should Harry have used as a teacher earlier? There could definately be some that I have just missed.
He's had some opportunity, such as with LtW, but that was already pretty late in the series.

Offline b4utoo

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #82 on: January 05, 2021, 02:59:11 AM »
Since when has Marcone been a slow learner

Offline Mira

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #83 on: January 05, 2021, 02:06:15 PM »
Since when has Marcone been a slow learner

He never has been, and he has always been a man of goals and will use anything or anyone to his advantage and with the exception of the child who was collateral damage, he has no regrets.  That
is what actually scared Harry when he soul gazed him so many years ago.  The coins seem to match up with the personalities and or weaknesses of their hosts.  Marcone would have deliberately chosen
Namshiel because he believes that will give him the most power.. So far it has, and I think he has bought into the "partnership" idea verses being dominated by the Fallen trapped in the coin.  This may work out, it worked for the Battle of Chicago, or it may not, time will tell.  No, in of himself, Marcone hasn't any talent, but he will allow a Fallen angel with lots of talent and experience to use him for whatever ends.. Thinking long term, you understand?

Offline b4utoo

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #84 on: January 05, 2021, 04:51:38 PM »
Was more a statement than question...but thanks

Offline Mira

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Re: Why is Marcone such a heavy magical hitter?
« Reply #85 on: January 05, 2021, 05:22:09 PM »
Was more a statement than question...but thanks

I was going for a confirmation of what you said.  If that makes any sense?