When did LtW join the White Council?

[Mira]

Turn Coat, Ch. 15:
Quote

    Once, I watched the tribe I was expected to guide and protect be destroyed, Harry Dresden. I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. I watched and restrained myself, until it was too late for me to make a difference. When I did that, I chose who would live and who would di. My people died for my principles.

Or that is Listen's to Wind's own sense of guilt that he didn't do enough, because as some point he did step in.  The guilt comes from apparently he was in the position where he had to chose who'd live and who'd die among his people.  Now was it because as a medicine man he had to triage his patients?  Or a bargain he made?

[Bad Alias]

Or that is Listen's to Wind's own sense of guilt that he didn't do enough, because as some point he did step in.  The guilt comes from apparently he was in the position where he had to chose who'd live and who'd die among his people.  Now was it because as a medicine man he had to triage his patients?  Or a bargain he made?

He explicitly says they died because he didn't intervene. He also explicitly says it's because of the principle that it's wrong for members of the Council to intervene in mortal politics. So I guess that my original statement was wrong because I said it was implied. It's explicitly stated.

I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. ... My people died for my principles.

Emphasis added. LtW didn't intervene because he was a member of the White Council, and LtW believed it was wrong for a member to intervene in mortal politics.

because as some point he did step in.

There's no evidence that he stepped in.

The guilt comes from apparently he was in the position where he had to chose who'd live and who'd die among his people.

He chose to not intervene. That's the choice he's referring to. That's the plain meaning of what he's said.

[SerScot]

The WC’s imposition of its non-interfereance ethic upon its members is one of the reasons I’m curious about its creation and its history.  Imposing that ethic upon cultures that don’t damn, shame, or banish magic users would seem... odd. 

[vincentric]

The WC had to come to the Americas with the Spaniards at the very latest.

Somehow I don't see the Red Court allowing Cortez and his conquistadors to run roughshod unless they had some magical help.

[Bad Alias]

The WC’s imposition of its non-interfereance ethic upon its members is one of the reasons I’m curious about its creation and its history.  Imposing that ethic upon cultures that don’t damn, shame, or banish magic users would seem... odd. 

At the time the WC was founded, that was all of them.

The WC had to come to the Americas with the Spaniards at the very latest.

Somehow I don't see the Red Court allowing Cortez and his conquistadors to run roughshod unless they had some magical help.

It could be that Cortez had help from within the Red Court. Cortez was able to do what he did because he had a great deal of local support. They also had a lot of crosses and faith and stuff.

[Mira]

I always figured though numbers were sparse. The WC was never limited by continents. They've always had access to the ways. And they seem to have methods for finding those who are actually doing black magic, sensing it.. so I can't imagine them not coming to the america's and putting the wizards they found there under their collective thumbs on following the laws. Though when that actually happened could be argued..
*The existence of DR is a good point. They'd have known about it for far longer than simply when the america's were colonized. Things like Merlin's journals, people like the gatekeeper. America's existence couldn't have been entirely unknown to to the council, specifically at the higher echelons.

Yeah, but there is also evidence that many don't know about it,or that much.  Doesn't Eb say if the Council knew what Harry did as Warden on Demonreach or what it was they'd really want to get rid of them.  We know that  Merlin most likely started the White Council, it is also possible that he created Demonreach before he formed the Council. 

[Bad Alias]

It's been implied or mentioned several times that Harry's job as Warden isn't widely known or understood.

[The_Sibelis]

It's been implied or mentioned several times that Harry's job as Warden isn't widely known or understood.

but it is known. Especially more than understood. Though the council apparently understands it's full of monsters and Harry can release them if desired. They knew his plan for Ethniu and weren't surprised for instance. Even Carlos didn't seem too surprised about it, more that he could actually talk to Enthiu directly still.
Really though... How much do we understand of it's actual purpose ourselves? Eb seems to think Harry still doesn't know it's actual purpose in PT

[Mira]

but it is known. Especially more than understood. Though the council apparently understands it's full of monsters and Harry can release them if desired. They knew his plan for Ethniu and weren't surprised for instance. Even Carlos didn't seem too surprised about it, more that he could actually talk to Enthiu directly still.
Really though... How much do we understand of it's actual purpose ourselves? Eb seems to think Harry still doesn't know it's actual purpose in PT

Oh I think after a year on the island, Harry understands what it is about pretty well.  Well, as much as Alfred is allowed to tell him.  But unless Eb was Warden of the island himself at one time, I doubt that he fully understands himself what it's actual purpose is.

[Arjan]

And Harry agrees with the island’s purpose. There is no conflict with the island not even about methods or morality or whatever.

I think of the senior council only the gatekeeper understand more or less what is going on. They do not act like they know that winter is protecting this reality in a critical time.

[Mira]

And Harry agrees with the island’s purpose. There is no conflict with the island not even about methods or morality or whatever.

I think of the senior council only the gatekeeper understand more or less what is going on. They do not act like they know that winter is protecting this reality in a critical time.

Yup, and Rashid isn't sharing a lot of what he knows with the Senior Council either.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

I don't know why he would choose Mesoamerican instead of something more European. I always assumed it was something his master taught him. This would imply, at least a little bit, that his teacher was indigenous.

It is quite important than words and symbols used by wizard are not his vernacular. They do not hold like gnostic value in doing magic, they do not represent some angelic language or smth like in real-world occultism - they are foci for wizards mind.
If Carlos is from L.A. he could use some native Mexican symbolism for his spells.

[The_Sibelis]

Yeah, but there is also evidence that many don't know about it,or that much.  Doesn't Eb say if the Council knew what Harry did as Warden on Demonreach or what it was they'd really want to get rid of them.  We know that  Merlin most likely started the White Council, it is also possible that he created Demonreach before he formed the Council.

he knows the what and the how of the island. Not the why. Because quite simply the same as with other topics Harry just doesn't get it because if he did it would change the plot(like who killed my parents, how are BCV's related to outsiders, those kinds of meaningful questions Harry has some sort of stupidity plot armor for lol) I mean, Eb does have Merlin's journals...

[Mira]

he knows the what and the how of the island. Not the why. Because quite simply the same as with other topics Harry just doesn't get it because if he did it would change the plot(like who killed my parents, how are BCV's related to outsiders, those kinds of meaningful questions Harry has some sort of stupidity plot armor for lol) I mean, Eb does have Merlin's journals...

I wouldn't call it stupidity, it is more ignorance..  He had bad study habits from the get go, he slept through Latin in high school, and even though it has improved some, he still doesn't know half of what goes on at White Council meetings.  He's gotten better at veils, but he has had to really work at that.  Maybe that is why he wants him lab back so badly?  He had to resort to potions to break out Thomas, but it is never said where he put it together or how he got the ingredients.

[The_Sibelis]

I remember an old Woj about Harry doesn't do potions anymore cause they're for people who really don't know what they're doing... Guess Harry's regressing lol.
Really hoping Harry gets his act together on his magical finesse in the next few books. I remember him mentioning it multiple times in PT/BG, when he encounters Marcones sudden mastery for instance.