Mac's True Nature (spoilers for BG)

[kevinm]

I wanted to give some thoughts on the revelation about Mac.  I know another thread got into this but angels both of the holy and the fallen variety are kind of my thing (www.youtube.com/c/paranormalencyclopedia) so I might have some additional insights.

First yeah Mac's an angel, particularly one of a type known as the Grigori or the watchers.  In angelology (mostly Jewish) they were given the job of teaching mankind civilization and/or magic (kind of depends on the source) but lusted after human women creating half breed children known as nephillim or anakim (Goliath incidentally was from these blood lines).  Generally they are seen as fallen angels/demons but i don't think that's the case with Mac... at least not exactly.

So in some European folklore there's actually three groups of angels.  The Holy Angels (Michael and the other angels that remain loyal to God), the fallen angels (Satan and his ilk) and what you might call the tripped.  These were angels who refused to take sides when Lucifer rebelled against God.  They weren't cast into Hell but they were no longer allowed to remain in Heaven forcing them out onto the Earth (incidentally Dante mentiones them briefly in The Divine Comedy placing them in the outer part of Limbo, Hell's first level although before Charon and the river Styx).  Some European legends actually associate these angels with the origin of the faeries but I don't think that's where Jim's going. I think Mac is just an angel barred from Heaven but not cast into Hell from the ranks of the Grigori.

[Mira]

I think the ranks of the angels that refused to take sides fits Mac, and what few comments about him that are in the series.  The fact that the bar is neutral territory, this also fits with that.  However knowing Harry is changing him, little by little he is being forced to take a side.  It began with tossing the keys of his Trans Am to Harry so he could get to Victor's lake house in Storm Front, to making a real statement and commitment in Battle Ground, a blood oath of a type, putting a smear of his blood on the Placard, thus swearing that anyone that comes through the door of his bar to hurt those inside it has to go through him first.

[hiddendotgif]

Forcing Mac to take a side may have significant fallout - not as big as if Michael had misused his borrowed Grace, in terms of scale, but similar, in my opinion

[Mira]

Forcing Mac to take a side may have significant fallout - not as big as if Michael had misused his borrowed Grace, in terms of scale, but similar, in my opinion

Mac isn't being forced, apparently as he is now, he does have free will, so far he hasn't "used" whatever power he has, he might not be able to.  He did heal very quickly back in Cold Days from a gun shot wound to the stomach if I remember correctly.  It isn't quite like Michael though, he was loaned for a time Uriel's Grace, Grace that Uriel isn't free to use, but because he does have free will, Michael could have chosen to use and abuse. 

[Bad Alias]

These were angels who refused to take sides when Lucifer rebelled against God.

I believe there's a WoJ where he says Lasciel refused to take sides. If so, Mac's status as a "tripped" angel would need to be because of something other refusing to take sides. Or Jim will have to change that. WoJ is just something he's said. I don't consider it canon until it's in a book.

Mac might be able to do whatever he wants so long as he doesn't use his angelic power. It would be a very good reason for him to keep himself "out." If he gets emotionally involved with anyone, he might not be able to resist the temptation to use whatever power he has.

[Griffyn612]

Still no love for the transubstantiated Raphael theory, huh?

Le sigh...

[Bad Alias]

If it helps, I'm not in the Grigori definitively confirmed camp.

[Mira]

Mac might be able to do whatever he wants so long as he doesn't use his angelic power. It would be a very good reason for him to keep himself "out." If he gets emotionally involved with anyone, he might not be able to resist the temptation to use whatever power he has.

I think he crossed that line when he smeared his blood on the Placard.

[Griffyn612]

I think he crossed that line when he smeared his blood on the Placard.

There was a WoJ that Mac hasn't ever done anything that a human couldn't do. I'd argue that him smearing his blood on the placard might still qualify.  Especially if he did or does have power but can't use it, so the blood on the placard was really only an extension of the protection he offers his patrons under guest law.  He wasn't taking a side, so much as defending his guests.

[Mira]

There was a WoJ that Mac hasn't ever done anything that a human couldn't do. I'd argue that him smearing his blood on the placard might still qualify.  Especially if he did or does have power but can't use it, so the blood on the placard was really only an extension of the protection he offers his patrons under guest law.  He wasn't taking a side, so much as defending his guests.

I disagree, if he was merely protecting his guests under guest law, then he didn't need to take the added step of smearing his blood on the Placard.  Guest law is a given, as Harry says at the end of Battle Ground when he was arguing before the members of the Accords, it is a law so old and sacred it doesn't need to be written down.  If he wasn't taking a side in smearing his blood on the Placard, then it shouldn't have been a hard decision for him. But it was. Harry had to push him, it was only when he was about to use his wizard's sight and Mac stopped him, did Mac come to the decision to commit himself with his blood.

He lowered his hand slowly, his expression resolved.  Then he took a step back, pursed his lips, looked at me, and shook his head.

Decision made, he moved briskly to put his blood on the Placard and hang it up.

[Griffyn612]

I disagree, if he was merely protecting his guests under guest law, then he didn't need to take the added step of smearing his blood on the Placard.  Guest law is a given, as Harry says at the end of Battle Ground when he was arguing before the members of the Accords, it is a law so old and sacred it doesn't need to be written down.  If he wasn't taking a side in smearing his blood on the Placard, then it shouldn't have been a hard decision for him. But it was. Harry had to push him, it was only when he was about to use his wizard's sight and Mac stopped him, did Mac come to the decision to commit himself with his blood.

Decision made, he moved briskly to put his blood on the Placard and hang it up.

Yes, because the placard was basically ensuring that he'd be the first to die if someone attacked his place.  That's not something you just casually commit to.  Especially if you're powerless.

[Mira]

Yes, because the placard was basically ensuring that he'd be the first to die if someone attacked his place.  That's not something you just casually commit to.  Especially if you're powerless.

No, it isn't, but that isn't something he wouldn't have done anyway, he didn't need to be asked or to add his blood to seal the deal.  As Harry pointed out, Mac knew what the Placard was, what putting his blood on it meant.. 

Mac rocked back half a pace. He looked from the sign to me.  He didn't quite lick his lips in nervous guilt, but it was pretty clear that he didn't like that I'd realize what he knew.

Mac knew what was going to be asked of him, not the same at all as looking after the people in the bar. Mac would have done that anyway,as best he could. The Placard is about more than just that.  Mac himmmed and hawaad, looking at the sign, then away..

Choosing to put his blood on the Placard, if it didn't cross the line for Mac, it blurred it to the point where it might no longer be there..  Because;

"What is it?" Murphy asked as he worked.
"The placard from the Cross," I said, "Here is the King of the Jews."
Her golden eyebrows went up.  "From the vault?"
"Yeah," I said.
"What does it do?"
"It's embodied intercession. . . It focuses energy on an individual."

I looked up the meaning of "intercession."  According to Wikipedia;

Intercession or intercessory prayer is the act of praying to a deity or to a saint in heaven on behalf of oneself or others.

That my friends is taking sides, it is a pledge from Mac, that he'd be willing to ask for divine help to save those in his bar.  The guys he refused to back many millennia ago in another battle between good and evil.

[Griffyn612]

No, it isn't, but that isn't something he wouldn't have done anyway, he didn't need to be asked or to add his blood to seal the deal.  As Harry pointed out, Mac knew what the Placard was, what putting his blood on it meant.. 

Mac knew what was going to be asked of him, not the same at all as looking after the people in the bar. Mac would have done that anyway,as best he could. The Placard is about more than just that.  Mac himmmed and hawaad, looking at the sign, then away..

Choosing to put his blood on the Placard, if it didn't cross the line for Mac, it blurred it to the point where it might no longer be there..  Because;

I looked up the meaning of "intercession."  According to Wikipedia;

That my friends is taking sides, it is a pledge from Mac, that he'd be willing to ask for divine help to save those in his bar.  The guys he refused to back many millennia ago in another battle between good and evil.

That's not my interpretation of the scene. My interpretation is that the plaque paints a target on the person who's blood is on it. The protection offered by the plaque is connected to Mac, so any attack would come at him. 

That's a huge difference from helping defend. If the plaque had been present in the Cold Days attack, then rather than Before breaking the threshold of the place and attacking all three there, he would have had to have gone through Mac and killed him.

It's putting a huge, inescapable target on his back.  It makes a huge difference in regards to strategy.  It makes him the Tank. And if he isn't strong enough, he'll wind up dead.

And as for his reaction, his unease wasn't just putting his blood on it, if it was that at all. It was that Harry had deduced what he was. 

[Snark Knight]

In angelology (mostly Jewish) they were given the job of teaching mankind civilization and/or magic (kind of depends on the source) but lusted after human women creating half breed children known as nephillim or anakim (Goliath incidentally was from these blood lines).  Generally they are seen as fallen angels/demons but i don't think that's the case with Mac... at least not exactly.

Mac probably lusted after beer though. Tasy, tasty beer,

I believe there's a WoJ where he says Lasciel refused to take sides. If so, Mac's status as a "tripped" angel would need to be because of something other refusing to take sides. Or Jim will have to change that. WoJ is just something he's said. I don't consider it canon until it's in a book.

I thought the one about Lasciel's offense was more trying to convince both sides she was loyal to them and play them against each other for her own ends, not just honestly standing aside.

[Mira]

And as for his reaction, his unease wasn't just putting his blood on it, if it was that at all. It was that Harry had deduced what he was. 

We can agree to disagree, no, it was the placard, he knew what it meant, and he saw that Harry saw that he knew.

Mac saw the sign and his eyes widened.  He looked at me, his face written heavily with consternation.

According to the dictionary, consternation means;

feelings of anxiety or dismay, typically at something unexpected.

He knew what Harry was going ask of him.  Up until the moment he saw the placard, as Harry had asked, Mac went with him and Murphy into his office to talk protection for those in the bar.  His reaction was to the placard.  His reaction to Harry knowing what he is and trying to see him with his sight, was "don't hurt yourself."

What does the placard do?

"It's embodied intercession.

What is intercession?

Intercession or intercessory prayer is the act of praying to a deity or to a saint in heaven on behalf of oneself or others. The Apostle Paul's exhortation to Timothy specified that intercession prayers should be made for those in authority. Wikipedia

Yup, taking sides in a big way.. I don't think Jim chose those words lightly.