Mac's True Nature (spoilers for BG)

[Griffyn612]

Wasn't he already doing that when Harry brought in the Placard.  But hold it a minute, Mac's Bar is neutral territory, different factions meet there from time to time.  Did Mac ever sign the Accords? If he had, he cannot reside over neutral territory, signing the Accords is taking a side.

He's had a sign on the wall since the first book that says it's Accorded Neutral Territory.  He filled out the necessary paperwork.

He may not be a member of the Accorded Nations, but he's recognized as a neutral party, and his place is a neutral location. And I'd bet money that he's obligated to recognize the rules about guest law and whatnot.

[Telynn]

You know, depending on how the placard works, you are right, it might not be 'taking a side'.  If it protects anyone taking sanctuary in the bar, then that could be ANYONE from ANYONE.  An outsider could be hiding from Harry.

[Griffyn612]

You know, depending on how the placard works, you are right, it might not be 'taking a side'.  If it protects anyone taking sanctuary in the bar, then that could be ANYONE from ANYONE.  An outsider could be hiding from Harry.

Yup. If Ethniu had challenged Marcone under the rules of the accords, claiming he was illegitimate as a human, then she could have attacked Chicago legally and also strolled into Mac's bar in the middle of it. 

[Dina]

Not with the placard. An outsider couldn't get inside. That is what I understood I mean. An outsider couldn't enter the place unless someone killed Mac first.

[Mira]

He's had a sign on the wall since the first book that says it's Accorded Neutral Territory.  He filled out the necessary paperwork.

He may not be a member of the Accorded Nations, but he's recognized as a neutral party, and his place is a neutral location. And I'd bet money that he's obligated to recognize the rules about guest law and whatnot.

That is true, so why did he need the Placard then?  It apparently didn't make him superman, nor did  necessarily make his threshold any stronger.  Yeah, before this all went down, an Outsider was in his place and named him for what he was, a Watcher.  It was all about the Placard and the meaning of it that Mac was reacting to.  Not Harry figuring out what he is, Mac wasn't upset, he was very calm when he prevented Harry from seeing him with his sight.. ""Don't," the mostly mute man said gently. "Hurt yourself."

[Bad Alias]

He's had a sign on the wall since the first book that says it's Accorded Neutral Territory.

It was first mentioned in Death Masks.

[Mira]

It was first mentioned in Death Masks.

And if it is neutral territory, everyone is welcome, including the Fomor, not to tear up the other patrons, but welcome because someone neutral doesn't take sides... Thus by smearing his blood on the Placard and hanging it up, Mac took a side against the Fomor.. They weren't getting in his place.

[Griffyn612]

Not with the placard. An outsider couldn't get inside. That is what I understood I mean. An outsider couldn't enter the place unless someone killed Mac first.

We don't know what the placard does, specifically, other than protect a place.  We don't know if it would do anything other than reinforce the threshold, or if it would do something to stop mortals with ill intent as well. 

If Justine had walked in there, it might have let her in, if she did so under her own power and without ill intent.

It was first mentioned in Death Masks.

I stand corrected.

And if it is neutral territory, everyone is welcome, including the Fomor, not to tear up the other patrons, but welcome because someone neutral doesn't take sides... Thus by smearing his blood on the Placard and hanging it up, Mac took a side against the Fomor.. They weren't getting in his place.

The placard was set to defend the place and make Mac the conduit or link to the place. We don't know anything about how it works, but if someone showed up looking for shelter, including the Fomor, it might have let them in. We don't know the rules of how it works.

So saying he took sides to me is an overstep.  He just did more of what he was already going to do, but at severely higher risk to himself.

It was all about the Placard and the meaning of it that Mac was reacting to.  Not Harry figuring out what he is, Mac wasn't upset,...

I don't know why you're ignoring the text. Here's the direct quote.

“You know what it is,” I said.
Mac rocked back half a pace. He looked from the sign to me. He didn’t quite lick his lips in nervous guilt, but it was pretty clear that he didn’t like that I’d realized what he knew.

The text says it's Harry's knowledge that upsets him, not the placard.

[Mira]

   
    Mac rocked back half a pace. He looked from the sign to me. He didn’t quite lick his lips in nervous guilt, but it was pretty clear that he didn’t like that I’d realized what he knew.


The text says it's Harry's knowledge that upsets him, not the placard.

I think that line is ambiguous at best, Harry says, but it was pretty clear that he didn’t like that I’d realized what he knew.

Because the line before that Harry says to Mac, "You know what this is."I said.

That wasn't a question, it was a declarative sentence, then Harry says, " he didn’t like that I’d realized what he knew."

Harry uses "what" not who, Mac didn't like that fact that Harry knew that he knew "what" that old piece of wood was.

[Griffyn612]

I think that line is ambiguous at best, Harry says, but it was pretty clear that he didn’t like that I’d realized what he knew.

Because the line before that Harry says to Mac, "You know what this is."I said.

That wasn't a question, it was a declarative sentence, then Harry says, " he didn’t like that I’d realized what he knew."

Harry uses "what" not who, Mac didn't like that fact that Harry knew that he knew "what" that old piece of wood was.

I think we're back to ATD, as we're interpreting the text differently.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mira]

I think we're back to ATD, as we're interpreting the text differently.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yup, and we will have to see in the next few books what Jim decides because I think that scene will have lasting consequences.   Thus the ambiguity, I can here his sing song now, "I ain't a going to tell you...."  Sigh..

[Griffyn612]

Yup, and we will have to see in the next few books what Jim decides because I think that scene will have lasting consequences.   Thus the ambiguity, I can here his sing song now, "I ain't a going to tell you...."  Sigh..

Oh, I'm sure it will.  He answered questions in this one, and then dropped more questions. 

[Mira]

Oh, I'm sure it will.  He answered questions in this one, and then dropped more questions.

Do you have the WOJs?  I am not questioning that he answered questions on this, just curious as to what he said.

[Bad Alias]

We don't know ... if it would do something to stop mortals with ill intent as well. 

I think it specifically said supernatural threats. I'm pretty sure, but would have to check.

Do you have the WOJs?  I am not questioning that he answered questions on this, just curious as to what he said.

I'm fairly certain that Griff meant this book when he said "this one."

[Mira]

m fairly certain that Griff meant this book when he said "this one."

Got that, but it still isn't clear what Mac was a bit upset about.  That is what I wanted a WOJ about.
The dispute is between "what" verses "who."  Griff thinks Mac was upset because Harry figured out who he is, stretching it, what he is..  I think Mac isn't so much upset that Harry knows what/who he is, but that Mac knows that Harry knows that he knows what the Placard is.  As a result, Mac had to decide to commit to a side, which screws up his neutrality and his position the last few thousand years.