Poor Harry - Jim you cruel man. Lol

[Arjan]

I can see  Harry going through a type of "Twelve Step" process sort of like A.A.  Harry needs to make amends to those he has wronged.  He didn't intend to hurt Ivy, he didn't think of her when he decided to take his own life and involve others in the process.  So he has to apologia to her, it may be difficult if she is in full Archive mode, so it will be interesting.  He also has to apologize to Kincaid for involving him.. Which will come as a huge shock to Kincaid, who as a mercenary/assassin supposedly wouldn't care as long as he got paid.  However I believe Kincaid does care about Ivy. Repairing that relationship might pave the way to Kincaid giving Harry insight into his father, who is rumored to be Drakul.  This could be critical in the BAT to come.

Kincaid is not stupid. Harry can try to offer his help with approaching Ivy. I think he will understand an apology depending how it is phrased. It can be dangerous though if it is seen as a debt.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Kincaid will be pissed with Harry, he is the ultimate blot on Kincaid’s CV, one shot death, and he missed with Dresden.

[Dina]

He only failed because Ivy ordered him to shot him in the chest. So, not Harry's fault. In fact, he is somehow in Harry's debt still. He contracted him to saved him of the WK by killing him and he didn´t. He may even want to finish the job though, but he knows Ivy would probably stop him if he tried.

Seriously, I need Harry making amends to Ivy and Kinkaid, and having them together.

[forumghost]

Kincaid will be pissed with Harry, he is the ultimate blot on Kincaid’s CV, one shot death, and he missed with Dresden.

What are you talking about, Kincaid killed him just fine, he came back as a ghost and everything. His employer never specified he had to stay dead.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

Nah. Mabs saved his biological life.
It's explained quite fine - Dresden was not a ghost in GS - he was disembodied soul.
At best we could call it ghost+ as he shared some qualities. But he kept being alive technically.

[TheCuriousFan]

He only failed because Ivy ordered him to shot him in the chest. So, not Harry's fault. In fact, he is somehow in Harry's debt still. He contracted him to saved him of the WK by killing him and he didn´t. He may even want to finish the job though, but he knows Ivy would probably stop him if he tried.

Seriously, I need Harry making amends to Ivy and Kinkaid, and having them together.

The question is which book we'll get Ivy having a breakdown over the internet and Kincaid returning in.

[Dina]

Hopefully, 12M.

I agree about Harry not being dead.

[Arjan]

Nah. Mabs saved his biological life.
It's explained quite fine - Dresden was not a ghost in GS - he was disembodied soul.
At best we could call it ghost+ as he shared some qualities. But he kept being alive technically.

It is stated several times both in the books and in woj that he was dead.

In a dualistic world view you are dead when your soul, your anima, is separated from your body. Killing is literally to sunder body and soul from each other. What Mab had was an empty shell.

That is the magical worldview. In that worldview you can return from the dead because your soul, which is the real you according to Uriel, can just get a body again. Your own one in Harry’s case or another one in the corpstakers case if she had succeeded in Ghost Story.

Harry was clearly dead but dead is a spectrum as Mab said. Harry was not gone so he could get back.

But Harry crossed a border. A significant border as Lea explained in Ghost story when she explained what corpstaker was.

His body might have been living in the sense that a plant is alive but without Harry, without the soul Harry, Harry was dead. That is dead in the definition of the dualistic world view which has a total distinction between spiritual and material. It is a worldview Christianity got from the Greeks and it is the worldview in the books.

It is the worldview attacked in his book consciousness explained: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_Explained

[Dina]

I certainly disagree.

[Arjan]

I certainly disagree.

With Mab, Lea and Jim? In the context of the books?

In real life there is no separation between body and soul and what we see as soul is just an expression of the total person and in that context Harry could not have been dead because he is now alive but that is not the dresdenverse. In the dresdenverse people can rise from the dead.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

Your own one in Harry’s case or another one in the corpstakers case if she had succeeded in Ghost Story.

In her case, I'm not really sure she was SOUL anymore, she seemed more like Nightmare a bit - ghost per se but with power and drive of dead man.

That is dead in the definition of the dualistic world view which has a total distinction between spiritual and material. It is a worldview Christianity got from the Greeks and it is the worldview in the books.

Now TBH Christianity on dogmatic level rejects such dualism.
From Catholic perspective even if his concioussness was wandering around a bit - he was still alive overall.
If body is alive, soul by def. is not gone.

[Arjan]

In her case, I'm not really sure she was SOUL anymore, she seemed more like Nightmare a bit - ghost per se but with power and drive of dead man.

I do not think so. Uriel was far too pleased when she got the southbound train. I do not think only good people have souls because what point would there be in going south?

Corpstaker did not loose who she was. That horrible person was corpstaker.

Now TBH Christianity on dogmatic level rejects such dualism.
From Catholic perspective even if his concioussness was wandering around a bit - he was still alive overall.
If body is alive, soul by def. is not gone.

Details. The important part is the belief that the soul exists after the body is gone. There are good reasons to believe that the original jewish belief before christianity did not belief that and believed in the litteral ressurection of the dead to live here on earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_eZf33UMs8
(the lecture starts after 14 minutes of introductions)

But inside the dresdenverse it is clear that both Harry and the corpstaker crossed a border:

“With significant capability,” Lea replied, stressing the phrase. “When Corpsetaker’s spirit still dwelt upon the mortal coil, even bodies with latent talent were hospitable enough for
her to exercise her full power. But thanks to you, and like you, my dear godson, she has passed beyond the threshold between life and death. Now she requires a body with a much greater inherent talent in order to use her gifts once she is inside it.”

I think that settles it.

[TheCuriousFan]

In her case, I'm not really sure she was SOUL anymore, she seemed more like Nightmare a bit - ghost per se but with power and drive of dead man.

Now TBH Christianity on dogmatic level rejects such dualism.
From Catholic perspective even if his concioussness was wandering around a bit - he was still alive overall.
If body is alive, soul by def. is not gone.

She had enough of a soul to get the southbound train to pay her a visit as she died.

[Mira]

With Mab, Lea and Jim? In the context of the books?

In real life there is no separation between body and soul and what we see as soul is just an expression of the total person and in that context Harry could not have been dead because he is now alive but that is not the dresdenverse. In the dresdenverse people can rise from the dead.

It is stated several times, Bob in Ghost Story hints that Harry was only mostly dead.. Mab says death is a spectrum, Harry had not fallen so far he couldn't return.  Harry has said since then he was only mostly dead, which means he wasn't all dead.  His body was kept alive, the risk was something could have happened to his soul in it's walk about, then his body would have died because there was no soul or undamaged soul to return to it.  It is plausible, his heart was badly damaged to be sure, he lost a lot of blood, but he fell into ice cold water, in the arms of the Queen of Winter, immediate cool down to put him in a state of suspended animation, then on to the island, full i.c.u. set up, Dresden style, nourishment, i.v. supplied by Alfred, circulation/heart/lung supplied by Bonea, and the rest supplied by Mab, keeping the body alive.  More importantly, his brain alive, which is the key.  When his soul returned, Harry woke up from his coma, he still was a while healing and rehabbing after that.  Metaphorically you might say he returned from the dead, but in reality he never was.

[Arjan]

It is stated several times, Bob in Ghost Story hints that Harry was only mostly dead.. Mab says death is a spectrum, Harry had not fallen so far he couldn't return.  Harry has said since then he was only mostly dead, which means he wasn't all dead.  His body was kept alive, the risk was something could have happened to his soul in it's walk about, then his body would have died because there was no soul or undamaged soul to return to it.  It is plausible, his heart was badly damaged to be sure, he lost a lot of blood, but he fell into ice cold water, in the arms of the Queen of Winter, immediate cool down to put him in a state of suspended animation, then on to the island, full i.c.u. set up, Dresden style, nourishment, i.v. supplied by Alfred, circulation/heart/lung supplied by Bonea, and the rest supplied by Mab, keeping the body alive.  More importantly, his brain alive, which is the key.  When his soul returned, Harry woke up from his coma, he still was a while healing and rehabbing after that.  Metaphorically you might say he returned from the dead, but in reality he never was.

Unless Mab had given the body to another shade, do not waste it. She could have asked a good price for it and Bonea could get something out of it as well.

It would not be Harry but his body would be very much alive.