Author Topic: Chicago, Sanctuary City?  (Read 8200 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2020, 02:12:07 PM »
I suspect, like Changes, it isn't actually about Harry. He's a convenient tool for the adversary/Adversary to use against Eb. Remember, Eb was harping about them using someone close to Harry in Pease Talks. And, they did. But, now they're using someone close to Eb in order to put him in a tough spot. What Eb's side of things look like, or the larger ramifications of the entire situation are... I'm not sure. But, that's the impression I got.

 I think it is part of a cover up of some sort, if they were behind the creation of a star born, they don't want to world to know about it.  Apparently they want to keep that information from Harry as well.  If he is on the outside he can accomplish what they want, but if he screws up, they don't have to take responsibility and can go on as before.

Offline Basil

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2020, 03:57:44 PM »
The "divided loyalties with Winter" angle isn't going to carry much traction with Rashid, that's for sure.

Of course, you don't really need a powerhouse to cap Harry. You'd just need someone who can veil well enough he wouldn't see it coming to wait outside his door and shoot him in the head. Carlos could get that done if he thought it was genuinely right, although I'm not sure he's that far gone.

Langtry could also contract with a supernatural mercenary like Kincaid or Grey - I'm not sure either of them would take the job, but there are probably a few others similarly dangerous. If Langtry would stoop to dealing with him, Shagnasty could probably still take Harry on the mainland.

Good points.  A couple additional thoughts.

My point about Rashid was not an issue with loyalty to Winter.  I don't think Rashid has loyalty to Winter.  The problem is that Rashid's job may be one of the most important in Creation right now.  If Rashid were killed or incapacitated, then the Gates could fall. 

It seems possible that the White Council wants someone else to do their work for them.  That would be a very Langtry thing to do.  Hiring a mercenary to do it could be possible.  But, how many qualified supernatural mercenaries are available?  That would be willing to risk Mab's displeasure.  That would be willing to face the Winter Knight?  Mercenaries by definition take on risky, not potentially suicidal jobs. 

Grey could easily do it, that is true.  But would he? And, would the White Council ask him?  He's probably known to them as having worked with Harry at least two times now.  They would probably scratch Grey off the list.

True, Harry was in some risk in the immediate aftermath of the White Council's decision -- because he had been beaten to an inch of his life, expended vast amounts of energy and everything was in chaos.  In a couple months, where Harry has rested up, replenished his gear, established Castle Dresden with defenses, the Winter Knight and Consort of the White Court of Vampires is a certifiable nightmare. 

 

Offline Arjan

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2020, 04:08:05 PM »
Good points.  A couple additional thoughts.

My point about Rashid was not an issue with loyalty to Winter.  I don't think Rashid has loyalty to Winter.  The problem is that Rashid's job may be one of the most important in Creation right now.  If Rashid were killed or incapacitated, then the Gates could fall.  .
Rashid is loyal to his job and so he understands more about Harry’s job than the rest of the white council. As long as Harry stays loyal to his job the gatekeeper won’t turn against him.
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Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2020, 05:07:08 PM »
Yes the White Council can try to cap Harry, but as pointed out above they have to worry about a miss, and that worry is much more than academic.

Harry has come back from the dead once, and he is known to have a flair for necromancy. They have to worry that if they try and fail, Harry would go full Kemmler on them with weapons and allies Kemmler could only have dreamed of. They are hoping for a stand off, Harry isn’t going to oblige, but neither is he going to hunt down the White Council.

As it stands Carlos is covering all of the US now, Harry has his mothers guide to the Never Never. What’s the odds that Harry can beat Carlos every time to a new Warlock, Sorceror etc and bring them back to Chicago before Carlos? He has the entire Paranet to spot new Wizards for him.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2020, 05:31:06 PM »
I do not think Harry is on Kemmler's level yet.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2020, 07:54:35 PM »
I do not think Harry is on Kemmler's level yet.

He raised Sue, that puts him on Kemmler's level, but at the same time I find hard to believe that
Harry would raise zombies or DR Who himself, so he will never be Kemmler.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2020, 08:07:22 PM »
In their minds he has the potential, but not the inclination, it’s not like he is going to kick off a war or something......whoops!

Well only by accident rather than intention.

But yes it’s not just fear which has led to his exclusion, it’s some of the questions he is (finally) seeking to ask.


Offline Mira

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2020, 08:32:34 PM »
In their minds he has the potential, but not the inclination, it’s not like he is going to kick off a war or something......whoops!

Well only by accident rather than intention.

But yes it’s not just fear which has led to his exclusion, it’s some of the questions he is (finally) seeking to ask.

I still think they wanted him out, so when he does something they covertly want, but overtly are against.  They can wring their hands and cry, "woah is me, sorry he is no longer one of us, so blame Mab."

Offline Basil

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2020, 08:44:47 PM »
I still think they wanted him out, so when he does something they covertly want, but overtly are against.  They can wring their hands and cry, "woah is me, sorry he is no longer one of us, so blame Mab."

That's quite possible as well: "Oh no, don't throw Harry Dresden into the supernatural briar patch!"  In other words, they have pre-disavowed Harry for any of his further actions.  Harry is extremely predictable, actually. 

It's amusing to a degree that most of his adversaries don't understand him (probably because they cannot).  Does the White Council understand Harry that well?  Maybe McCoy, but Langtry? No.  Langtry is driving the car, which is why he had the emergency meeting while Hary's staunchest allies were in surgery. 

By the way, the fact that Langtry/Mai and maybe Christos/Liberty as well had to force this issue through in the way that they did, makes me personally suspect that Harry WON the general membership vote.  Of course, much of that occurred before Ethniu's attack. Perhaps a post-Ethniu White Council would have voted against Harry. 


Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2020, 08:48:41 PM »
He raised Sue, that puts him on Kemmler's level, but at the same time I find hard to believe that
Harry would raise zombies or DR Who himself, so he will never be Kemmler.
He missed his shot at becoming the next Kemmler back in Changes.
That's quite possible as well: "Oh no, don't throw Harry Dresden into the supernatural briar patch!"  In other words, they have pre-disavowed Harry for any of his further actions.  Harry is extremely predictable, actually. 

It's amusing to a degree that most of his adversaries don't understand him (probably because they cannot).  Does the White Council understand Harry that well?  Maybe McCoy, but Langtry? No.  Langtry is driving the car, which is why he had the emergency meeting while Hary's staunchest allies were in surgery. 

By the way, the fact that Langtry/Mai and maybe Christos/Liberty as well had to force this issue through in the way that they did, makes me personally suspect that Harry WON the general membership vote.  Of course, much of that occurred before Ethniu's attack. Perhaps a post-Ethniu White Council would have voted against Harry. 


No, there were two votes, the public one for kicking him out and then the senior council one for the restrictions to put on him.
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Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2020, 10:00:46 AM »
As it stands Carlos is covering all of the US now, Harry has his mothers guide to the Never Never. What’s the odds that Harry can beat Carlos every time to a new Warlock, Sorceror etc and bring them back to Chicago before Carlos? He has the entire Paranet to spot new Wizards for him.

This is actually a very good point which fits very well with the "Sanctuary City" part. Especially if he did not focus on Warlocs but just people with talent. I do not think he has the time to redeem many warlocs at a time, but Harry's Castle for Gifted Youngsers definately has promise. I guess the less talented paranetters could teach basics even if they do not have much power.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2020, 10:20:08 AM »
Well Harry is going to have to shave his head following all those scalp wounds in BG, and he is technically a paraplegic.....

Offline Arjan

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2020, 11:13:01 AM »
Well Harry is going to have to shave his head following all those scalp wounds in BG, and he is technically a paraplegic.....
He has accelerated healing, more than normal wizards.
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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2020, 02:06:10 PM »
Yes, but if Harry got the chance to play at Professor X he would do it in a heartbeat.

But yes after what happened to Harry the Paranet is going to be leery about trusting potential young wizards to the White Council, so Elaine and Harry are the only real options, other than let them go Warlock. I can see the youngest being fostered by the Carpenters (they have the experience and room) with the older staying in the guest accommodation in the Castle. Indeed with the reality break in BG and all the magic slopping around, it would be strange if some Wizard level talents weren’t activated early.

Offline Mira

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Re: Chicago, Sanctuary City?
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2020, 02:08:43 PM »
Quote
No, there were two votes, the public one for kicking him out and then the senior council one for the restrictions to put on him.

I also think Harry has it about right as well, trumped up charges that he broke the First Law by
killing sorta humans with magic.. Um, Carlos I believe was vaporizing them, but no charges against him.  Then suspending the sentence?  Why? Because they know it is a sham attempt to control Harry, they don't really want him executed.