Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!

[TrueMonk]

I think the TWG is directly responsible for Murphy demise, I don't know why. Perhaps because she was not going to be happy ever again with so many injuries, perhaps because He needs that Harry losses her. I don't know. But Murphy did a wonderful thing, deserving a reward and perhaps Rest is the reward.

Why do I say that he is responsible, because too many "random" things led to Murphy's death. Bradley couldn't move with his daughter and Rudolph at the same time, so Harry and Murhpy asked him to leave Rudolph. The gun dropped to the floor and no one had the time to take it. Then Rudolph completely freak out. And Harry suddenly (not before that) discovered that he couldn't raise his arm for a Forzare. I just think there are too many "coincidences" and I only can see the TWG as having that control over reality.

Dina suggested in another thread that perhaps TWG is responsible for Murphs death. I think it is far more likely to be one of his opposites.

Can you think of anything that is not very elaborate or involves killing children that would be better at making Harry fall than exactly what happened here? It took two whole knights of the cross to counter it.

So I guess there is
Marcone/thorned nashiel
Nic
Lucifer or some demon

Because has the most to win (that I can figure out) and is the only one present in the book I am leaning toward Marcone. If Dresden had killed Rudolf the chances that he could/would team up with Marcone at some point are pretty good I think.

Also, it would be fitting if Marcone was the real killer of Murph.

If it had worked Marcone might end up with an ally and have avoided the eventual conflict with Dresden. Now that it did not, he is just still looking forward to that eventual conflict, even if Dresden finding outwould of course accelerate it.

What do you think?

[Dina]

There are many beings that would love to set things that way for Dresden, but how many could actually do it? I mean, many of them (Nemesis included) could have altered Rudolph mind to have him do that, but I believe that no one but TWG could have arranged for Bradley needing to let Rudolph, the falling gun, Rudolph recovering of Bradley hit at the exact time to move, see Murphy using the bazooka, grabbing that gun and Harry's realizing just at that moment that he could not cast Forzare (If he had realized that before hand, he would have done other things, probably attracting all Rudolph fury over him). So yes, I think it was TWG. Why? I am not so sure, but Murphy said herself that she wouldn't be herself anymore, so the TWG arranged for a glorious, heroic moment before she died. And perhaps it acted as a test for Harry too.

[morriswalters]

Death is always pretty random. And nobody likes it, so they put a face on it, this happened because. Rudolph is the anti Butters.

[TrueMonk]

To be fair I also like it and find it fitting if it is just Rudolf.

At the same time it just seems like too good a way to turn Harry to the dark side not to consider it could be someone actively trying.

[The_Sibelis]

I have this idea... That it was Harry. Harry was conflicted by his love life with Murphy, it created doubt. There was a bunch of magical energy around already, Rudolph was in close proximity to Harry while Harry's emotions were being amped up... So when Rudolph looks at his gun afterwards and exclaims it's because the trigger didn't move, but the gun misfired. It misfired because of the aura of an angry wizard.
Why Harry? Cause when he finds out it'll absolutely destroy him in ways a random accident or blaming Rudolph cannot. And one thing Jim loves is torturing Harry.
*Or the die alone curse 👀 nearly the same day they finally do the deed and admit their love of each other she dies.. makes me wonder if after he gets married if Lara isn't going to have an accident too.. the death curse theory,

[morriswalters]

*Or the die alone curse 👀 nearly the same day they finally do the deed and admit their love of each other she dies.. makes me wonder if after he gets married if Lara isn't going to have an accident too.. the death curse theory,

Can I upvote this by 1000?

[Dina]

I found the Harry theory plausible, even when I don't share it.

[Bad Alias]

Long post short, I give it even odds between it's just something that happened and someone did it to influence Harry.

DeathEverything is always pretty random.

You're pretty guaranteed to run into a lot of things that happened because of the confluence of circumstances beyond your control. Ever been in a car wreck? What would have happened if you had left a minute earlier or later? We make tiny decisions with consequences beyond our ability to anticipate everyday. Only after the fact looking back do we ascribe meaning to why we left work five minutes late that day.

Of course this is fiction, so everything actually can and often does have that teleological meaning. Jim felt it was necessary for Murphy to die at this point in the series for whatever reason(s). Many people here felt her story arc was complete, but I think, form a doylist perspective, the main reason anything happens in this series is about Harry. It would make sense if it happened to push Harry in a certain direction. The reason, from a watsonian perspective, is probably Harry as often as it isn't.

[Bad Alias]

Reading the Revelations and Rereads thread, it occurred to me that Harry smelled "sulfur and brimstone" (I think that's the quote) shortly after Murphy was killed. Could Marcone have used some hellfire infused magic to make it happen?

That seems like too much of a stretch to me given that hellfire isn't very useful the the delicate kind of work I imagine would be required to sneak an entropy curse or whatever past Harry and that Marcone was also fighting a major battle that night, but who knows?

[morriswalters]

Brimstone and Sulphur are one in the same and Harry smells it after Butters whacks him.

[Snark Knight]

Well, we got that warning from River in PT that the Genoskwa had survived being pancaked. Maybe he's branching out his revenge game to emotional suffering as well as gratuitous violence ... or maybe Lasciel got out too, and 'cheated' again to influence Rudolph. That seems more like her style.

[Telynn]

Well, we got that warning from River in PT that the Genoskwa had survived being pancaked. Maybe he's branching out his revenge game to emotional suffering as well as gratuitous violence ... or maybe Lasciel got out too, and 'cheated' again to influence Rudolph. That seems more like her style.

I was REALLY expecting him to show up as part of the invading force.

[TheCuriousFan]

Brimstone and Sulphur are one in the same and Harry smells it after Butters whacks him.

Gotta wonder why he smelled those after getting whacked.

I was REALLY expecting him to show up as part of the invading force.

That or he pops up soon in a short story after Battle Ground because he absolutely needs something to justify bringing him back from such an unambiguous death.

[Bad Alias]

Brimstone and Sulphur are one in the same.

That's why I remembered that both were used. I think the timing of Butters wacking him might be to throw us off. Or because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Fallen.

[Arjan]

That's why I remembered that both were used. I think the timing of Butters wacking him might be to throw us off. Or because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Fallen.

No but it could be a warning sign of Harry falling. Killing Rudolph would be the kind of choice that could trigger that and the smell of brimstone could be seen as a warning sign. A fallen Harry would have used hellfire in stead of soul fire.