Author Topic: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.  (Read 15402 times)

Offline Dina

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[major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« on: October 06, 2020, 07:27:39 AM »
Ok, I simply cannot understand the WC voting Harry out. I mean, when Ramirez told him about the voting, if I were in Harry's shoes I would have told them "that is bad. Because Mab always respects previous engagements. She won't ask me to betray the Council or to break the laws of magic, I am, after all, a Warden of the WC. But if I were not, I could be much more dangerous".
And after the battle...giving all that power to Mab without the restraining of a membership to the Council...is just dangerous. I don't get it.
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Offline Pirate101

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2020, 12:49:04 PM »
Just a thought: maybe Mab is not unhappy that Harry got booted out.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2020, 01:00:15 PM »
I mean she did spend a whole year trapping him on the island for the sake of cutting off his other bonds.
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Offline Dina

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2020, 01:07:31 PM »
Just a thought: maybe Mab is not unhappy that Harry got booted out.
Yes, I totally see that. I don't see what the Council wins.
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Offline Runninraven

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2020, 01:08:10 PM »
Someone in another thread suggested that the WC might have done it as a way to try and leverage Harry surrendering the Eye of Balor as payment for getting back in. I could totally see that, but that's about the only thing that sort of makes sense to me.

Offline edf

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2020, 01:18:52 PM »
Actually from that point of view, the comments about submitting to a search and seizure by the wardens implies that they might use this as an excuse to steal anything of Harry's that the WC wants.   Unfortunately if they were counting on that the WC is certain to be disappointed.  Harry's position as Warden makes recovery of anything he wants to protect nearly impossible, and Harry's attitude means that he won't be submitting to the WC's authority.

Offline Telynn

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2020, 01:21:51 PM »
And from the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like the castle will be that much less safe than the island.  Sure the island has Alfred, but ward wise didn't Harry think the wards on the castle were similar to what he saw on the island?  So I think just his regular stuff will be secure from the WC and for the really big stuff that he wants to be SUPER secure, he has the island.

Offline Mira

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2020, 01:29:58 PM »
And from the sounds of it, it doesn't sound like the castle will be that much less safe than the island.  Sure the island has Alfred, but ward wise didn't Harry think the wards on the castle were similar to what he saw on the island?  So I think just his regular stuff will be secure from the WC and for the really big stuff that he wants to be SUPER secure, he has the island.

Exactly, and if Harry tells Alfred, "they don't get in."  They don't get in, I doubt that most of them even know what is on the island.  Eb said as much in Peace Talks.  Also with the addition of Maggie, if she lives at the castle when she isn't school, it is now a real home, which means it now has a very strong threshold.  So the Wardens aren't going to easily enter uninvited, and if Harry is right about the wards, I'd think it be impossible.

Offline Arjan

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2020, 02:09:00 PM »
Exactly, and if Harry tells Alfred, "they don't get in."  They don't get in, I doubt that most of them even know what is on the island.  Eb said as much in Peace Talks.  Also with the addition of Maggie, if she lives at the castle when she isn't school, it is now a real home, which means it now has a very strong threshold.  So the Wardens aren't going to easily enter uninvited, and if Harry is right about the wards, I'd think it be impossible.
The gatekeeper knows but the island does not like him and he does not want to interfere with winter and the defense of reality anyway. As long as he thinks Mab has him under control the gatekeeper is not concerned.
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Offline Mira

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2020, 02:18:36 PM »
The gatekeeper knows but the island does not like him and he does not want to interfere with winter and the defense of reality anyway. As long as he thinks Mab has him under control the gatekeeper is not concerned.

Aside from Eb, I think Rashid is one of the few that knows the full implications of what the island is.  I doubt even if he was allowed on the island that he'd go after Harry's new toys anyway.  I think he has a good idea as to why Harry was allowed to get them.  I was speaking of Carlos and Company, if Harry tells Alfred, "no admittance," they aren't getting on the island.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2020, 02:28:39 PM »
Ok, I simply cannot understand the WC voting Harry out. I mean, when Ramirez told him about the voting, if I were in Harry's shoes I would have told them "that is bad. Because Mab always respects previous engagements. She won't ask me to betray the Council or to break the laws of magic, I am, after all, a Warden of the WC. But if I were not, I could be much more dangerous".
And after the battle...giving all that power to Mab without the restraining of a membership to the Council...is just dangerous. I don't get it.
This shouldn't be all that difficult to comprehend.  The Council is corrupt and falling apart. As dangerous as Harry might be there are factions pulling in multiple directions. To do this they had to act when members of the Senior Council were sidelined to make it work. There are at least two cabals in motion.  Jim is guiding us into a wizard civil war.  Chicago is going to be the rally point for the rebellion.
Aside from Eb, I think Rashid is one of the few that knows the full implications of what the island is.  I doubt even if he was allowed on the island that he'd go after Harry's new toys anyway.  I think he has a good idea as to why Harry was allowed to get them.  I was speaking of Carlos and Company, if Harry tells Alfred, "no admittance," they aren't getting on the island.
He doesn't need to tell Alfred anything. It's a demon supermax.  To Alfred your guilty if you come around, he just hasn't killed you yet.

Offline Arjan

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2020, 02:56:40 PM »
This shouldn't be all that difficult to comprehend.  The Council is corrupt and falling apart. As dangerous as Harry might be there are factions pulling in multiple directions. To do this they had to act when members of the Senior Council were sidelined to make it work. There are at least two cabals in motion.  Jim is guiding us into a wizard civil war.  Chicago is going to be the rally point for the rebellion.He doesn't need to tell Alfred anything. It's a demon supermax.  To Alfred your guilty if you come around, he just hasn't killed you yet.
Alfred can be remarkably restrained. In cold days he could have taken more action against Maeve and he did not. Mab thanked him for it.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2020, 04:25:16 PM »
I don't really see the upside of pushing him out. I could see the Gatekeeper doing it because he thinks it's time for Harry to confront the Council.

Offline Greywolf

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2020, 04:41:49 PM »
It could be because they’re trying to leverage the Blackstaff again. If Harry steps out of line they’ll order (re-order?) Eb to kill him, and if Eb refuses then the WC will exile or try to kill Eb, or something. Plus no future WC protection for Maggie when she eventually develops wizard powers. They’re not gonna be like “oh you’re Harry Dresden’s daughter? Well come right on in, we have doughnuts!”

Harry’s also been gaining reputational influence in the younger Wardens, and like every control-issues parent who has forbidden their teenager from seeing “that boy/girl ever again!”, they’re trying to cut Harry off from influencing the younger generation of wizards by painting him as a monster. Which, I mean, couldn’t possibly backfire.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: [major BG spoilers] About the Council.
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2020, 04:45:14 PM »
Harry’s also been gaining reputational influence in the younger Wardens, and like every control-issues parent who has forbidden their teenager from seeing “that boy/girl ever again!”, they’re trying to cut Harry off from influencing the younger generation of wizards by painting him as a monster. Which, I mean, couldn’t possibly backfire.
I can see this as a reason.