The one thing in battleground the bugged me: [BG Spoilers]

[Yuillegan]

Well, they did kill the Fomor Lord responsible for making them (in Bombshells I believe).

But perhaps they did use such tactics away from the main fight. Harry might have been at the center of the conflict for the most part, but who knows what happened outside of that? We don't get much fill in.

Hopefully Jim will mention such things later on.

[Bad Alias]

The only things said to be working are things with batteries taken out or run on gas without modern electrical components.

They kept swapping out batteries in their walkie talkies, and even those weren't lasting with swaps.  I'm not sure what motorcycle Murphy had but it might have been an older one with a battery and not much else on the way of electronics. 

Remember, the more modern, the more susceptible. So any smartphone or modem camera would be worthless.  Only old school cameras would make it through a blast or two, but eventually the odds would be against them.

They weren't switching batteries. Murphy put new batteries in a new walkie after the first burned out. The one's that kept working were behind wards. I imagine the ones in the field had been stored behind wards. Murphy's Harley was also stored behind wards.

I admit, it felt a bit weird to me too. And I suspect it really IS too big to contain.

Just, not yet. For a while, Chicago (and NG-inclusive hinterland) can be a woke island in a sea of the unknowing, with information slowly trickling out.

This is basically my take.

There is also the glaring issue of the attack choppers. Those things are full of electronics required for function, both in the weapons and for flying. They are basically flying computers. Those worked but I am supposed to believe that no one got footage of the attack? Rubbish.

They weren't in Chicago, and Titania got rid of most of the magical energy flying around. The sunrise would have too, and that's when they were expecting the NG.

The attack choppers have footage. I'm not sure what the footage will be like. Will it be heat signatures or what? My point is that I'm not sure it would be self evident what was on the footage. The footage will be in government hands. It would probably leak eventually.

-Right except they don't. Its been established over the course of the series that most things dont actually break. Murphy even has a conversation with Dresden about this. It never seems to cause any problems for her or any of the bad guys with various guns and other gear. Or really for anyone's phones 90% of the time.

Fire wasn't working right when Harry did his Egg Shen routine.

The coordination on the ground with the NG was probably being handled either by Lara's people or Marcone's with the warded radios. Both of the have people in state government.

To Morris's point, Harry does mention that they had people dying from lack of clean water that summer. Chicago is also one of the big financial centers of the world. This attack would probably also cause a global recession if not depression.

[Pirate101]

Remember, the more modern, the more susceptible. So any smartphone or modem camera would be worthless.  Only old school cameras would make it through a blast or two, but eventually the odds would be against them.

Lots of photo-nerds believe in using old-school analogous equipment. There are lots of cameras out there that work without batteries. Maybe on the attic in a box with grandfather's stuff ...

[huangjimmy108]

Edited to remove spoiler content from subject.
 - Griff

One of the most exciting things of the entire battleground book in my opinion was the scene where the Apache attack helicopters come at the end and royally fuck up the retreating Fomor. I waiting the entire book just for that scene, which I felt like I knew was coming the entire time since the arrival of the National Guard was foreshadowed numerous times. One of the best parts of the Dresden files more me has always been the relevance of the mortal world. In the DF, guns are not useless weapons. Magic and the supernatural are just different kinds of threats, and the combination of the two adds tremendous flavor the series.

In my head during the book I was hoping for a scene where a main battle tank arrives down a street and puts a sabot through some big baddie, but the helicopters were cool enough.

But the disappointing thing is that even though it is repeatedly stated over and over that this battle is simply to big to be covered up or missed, at the end of the book everyone is saying that it is successfully being covered up.


Sorry, but I call BS. Suspension of disbelief officially suspended. There is no fucking way that 8000 monsters attack a city, killing 20-60,000 people (the book listed different figures at different times), prompting the involvement of the military.......and it gets covered up. Eight Million people saw this shit go down. There is tons of destruction everywhere. Too. many. witnesses.

Also this story took place in time parallel to our own. Too many electronic devices to record things with, and too many ways for that information to leave the city. The explanation at the end about electronics and magic was bullshit. There are probably more phones and computers in Chicago than there are people. And not all of them would have been affected. Even in the places where there was the most reality breakdown due to magic, someones phone or camera was probably working. And Chicago is a big place. There were probably people who recorded things from a distance from tall buildings etc just like during natural disasters like the explosions that occurred in China not too long ago. Also we know for a fact, not even a conjecture, that at least some electronics were working in close proximity to the battle. The attack helicopters. There systems were clearly working or they would not have been able to operating their guns or even fly for that matter. Comms in and out of the city must have been working in come capacity as well, or how else did the NG and other emergency services even get called in or organized?

I really hope that in the next novel this gets undone and it the mortal world comes into knowledge of the supernatural. I think this will take the story in a very interesting direction.

We saw that the government still attempt to cover things up. Whether or not the attempt will be successful however is a big question mark in my opinion. The fact that the government still try to cover up is not surprising, and though it would likely take effect for now I doubt it would work long term.

[noblehunter]

Even just denying everyone an official narrative that lines up with reality would do a great deal to obfuscate what happened. One of the major weaknesses of conspiracy theories is that you have conflicting explanations for the same event. So the government says terrorists which is obviously garbage but none of the stories coming out of Chicago agree with each other. Some people are saying aliens and other people are saying fairies and other people say it was the Iranians and still others saying it was a Chinese attack and other other people are saying the Feds were testing an EMP device and it went horribly wrong.  There isn't one voice providing an explanation and there'd be almost nothing of what we've gotten used to qualifying as evidence.

So I don't think the cover-up will result in large numbers of people believing the official narrative but it will allow people to reject uncomfortable facts about what happened.

The big thing we aren't going to get answered is how it would affect US domestic and international politics. Responsibility for the attack would have to be assigned to someone and that someone would be destroyed.

[Shift8]

The big thing we aren't going to get answered is how it would affect US domestic and international politics. Responsibility for the attack would have to be assigned to someone and that someone would be destroyed.

This would be highly out of character for the U.S. government. The U.S. Government has done its fair share of unseemly acts, but completely making up an enemy and attacking them as a cover up is something it has never done. If there is some event like this that I am not aware of it either happened a very long time ago or was not done on this kind of scale.

And there is a reason it has not been done on this kind of scale, if ever. Governments cannot cover up things on this kind of scale, and blaming a foreign power or terrorist group would be so easily falsified that it would be completely pointless to try. Not only would be incredibly easy to falsify, but there would be too many layers of government involved for this to even be practical. Something like a CIA coup in the 1950's or 1960's was possible without anyone knowing because the entire operation was clandestine and could be authorized and carried out without having to involve anyone outside of the executive branch. This wont work with the battle of Chicago because it is a massive event and everyone will be involved. Congress, state governments, local governments etc.

[noblehunter]

This would be highly out of character for the U.S. government. The U.S. Government has done its fair share of unseemly acts, but completely making up an enemy and attacking them as a cover up is something it has never done. If there is some event like this that I am not aware of it either happened a very long time ago or was not done on this kind of scale.

And there is a reason it has not been done on this kind of scale, if ever. Governments cannot cover up things on this kind of scale, and blaming a foreign power or terrorist group would be so easily falsified that it would be completely pointless to try. Not only would be incredibly easy to falsify, but there would be too many layers of government involved for this to even be practical. Something like a CIA coup in the 1950's or 1960's was possible without anyone knowing because the entire operation was clandestine and could be authorized and carried out without having to involve anyone outside of the executive branch. This wont work with the battle of Chicago because it is a massive event and everyone will be involved. Congress, state governments, local governments etc.

I'm pretty sure they've done it since WW2 but I don't feel like looking it up right now. It's true that real false flag attacks, by any government, aren't on this scale.

However, the lie could go farther than you think. After all, they didn't invent an attack. If you line up enough "experts" to go out there and say "It was the Iranians!" enough people will fall for it because they will want to believe that there's something that can be done to stop it from happening again. The alternative is for the President to go on record saying "there is no effective action we can take to stop this from happening again." That's just not going to happen.

Will the truth come out? Sure. But the only people who have anything close to a complete and accurate picture of what happened aren't talking because they're the ones who decided to cover it up. By the time there's clear and convincing evidence it wasn't Iran, or whoever, the consequences of the lie will be manifest and there will be no going back.

[Shift8]

I'm pretty sure they've done it since WW2 but I don't feel like looking it up right now. It's true that real false flag attacks, by any government, aren't on this scale.

However, the lie could go farther than you think. After all, they didn't invent an attack. If you line up enough "experts" to go out there and say "It was the Iranians!" enough people will fall for it because they will want to believe that there's something that can be done to stop it from happening again. The alternative is for the President to go on record saying "there is no effective action we can take to stop this from happening again." That's just not going to happen.

Will the truth come out? Sure. But the only people who have anything close to a complete and accurate picture of what happened aren't talking because they're the ones who decided to cover it up. By the time there's clear and convincing evidence it wasn't Iran, or whoever, the consequences of the lie will be manifest and there will be no going back.

How are you going to get these experts? If the government somehow convinces some people to lie on TV, there are going to be quadruple that number taking them to task in public. If they use fake experts, everyone in those fields is going to be scratching their heads where these people came from and that is going to rapidly be public information.

It was the Iranians? What coherent explanation is going to make that make sense? With what weapons? How did they move that many personnel in secret? These things are impossible. No one is going to believe that. Even the average lay person is going to have a hard time swallowing this kind of explanation. Especially since we have 8 million witnesses and tons of physical evidence. You are also forgetting that an accusation like that is going to be refuted by Iran and everyone else internationally. It would be impossible to generate convincing false evidence of an attack on this scale and very easily falsified. Large troop and weapons movements cannot be hidden easily, and they are never covered up long term. This just does not happen.

-If the truth comes out later the lie will be worse than useless. It will backfire. Nobody lies when they know for certain that they wont be able to pull off the lie. That defeats the purpose.

[TheCuriousFan]

This would be highly out of character for the U.S. government. The U.S. Government has done its fair share of unseemly acts, but completely making up an enemy and attacking them as a cover up is something it has never done. If there is some event like this that I am not aware of it either happened a very long time ago or was not done on this kind of scale.

And there is a reason it has not been done on this kind of scale, if ever. Governments cannot cover up things on this kind of scale, and blaming a foreign power or terrorist group would be so easily falsified that it would be completely pointless to try. Not only would be incredibly easy to falsify, but there would be too many layers of government involved for this to even be practical. Something like a CIA coup in the 1950's or 1960's was possible without anyone knowing because the entire operation was clandestine and could be authorized and carried out without having to involve anyone outside of the executive branch. This wont work with the battle of Chicago because it is a massive event and everyone will be involved. Congress, state governments, local governments etc.

There's not much I can say to this that won't run straight into touchy topics.

[TrueMonk]

I realise it does not work so well with the fomor. But if it had been e.g. the red court, then the attack would have come from another country. It is not not the goverment of that country, just like another terrorist group who had kind of taken over a country.

I think it is worth pointing out that there is really big difference between an active hex and the "murphionic field". Harry can stand next to someone with a walkie for a reeeealy long time without affecting it. But he can also hex it in a couple of seconds.

I am pretty sure that a good wizard can hex a helicopter if he is close to it, but I would guess that the apaches can engage the wizard from pretty far away.

When reading I try to chose the interpretation that lets me enjoy the text the most. In regards to the super hex I would think that very reliable systems that is not too close to the source, such as nuclear generators, might be less affected. But I think the people in hospitals are out of luck. With the pacemakers, maybe there is some protection to be had from being inside a human? It would make the use of the swallowed usb device even smarter.

[noblehunter]

How are you going to get these experts? If the government somehow convinces some people to lie on TV, there are going to be quadruple that number taking them to task in public. If they use fake experts, everyone in those fields is going to be scratching their heads where these people came from and that is going to rapidly be public information.

It was the Iranians? What coherent explanation is going to make that make sense? With what weapons? How did they move that many personnel in secret? These things are impossible. No one is going to believe that. Even the average lay person is going to have a hard time swallowing this kind of explanation. Especially since we have 8 million witnesses and tons of physical evidence. You are also forgetting that an accusation like that is going to be refuted by Iran and everyone else internationally. It would be impossible to generate convincing false evidence of an attack on this scale and very easily falsified. Large troop and weapons movements cannot be hidden easily, and they are never covered up long term. This just does not happen.

-If the truth comes out later the lie will be worse than useless. It will backfire. Nobody lies when they know for certain that they wont be able to pull off the lie. That defeats the purpose.

Same place they already get experts for hire. The key thing is that no one will be able to contradict them without sounding like lunatics to anyone who wasn't in Chicago. They don't need to invent experts, just provide them with words to say. The experts will also want to believe an easier truth, as well. It's very difficult to refute something without being able to provide an alternative explanation. The innocent and guilty alike would say "it wasn't us but we have no clue what actually happened."

There's less than eight million survivors. That's not the same thing as witnesses. Not to mention, the lie isn't about anything that happened. It would be about why things happened. Since barely anyone knows why the attack happened, the lie will be fairly resilient.

Never underestimate the stupidity of politicians facing an out-of-context crisis.

[BrainFireBob]

This would be highly out of character for the U.S. government. The U.S. Government has done its fair share of unseemly acts, but completely making up an enemy and attacking them as a cover up is something it has never done. If there is some event like this that I am not aware of it either happened a very long time ago or was not done on this kind of scale.

And there is a reason it has not been done on this kind of scale, if ever. Governments cannot cover up things on this kind of scale, and blaming a foreign power or terrorist group would be so easily falsified that it would be completely pointless to try. Not only would be incredibly easy to falsify, but there would be too many layers of government involved for this to even be practical. Something like a CIA coup in the 1950's or 1960's was possible without anyone knowing because the entire operation was clandestine and could be authorized and carried out without having to involve anyone outside of the executive branch. This wont work with the battle of Chicago because it is a massive event and everyone will be involved. Congress, state governments, local governments etc.

This was explicitly proposed by the CIA as a means of legitimizing an invasion of Cuba during the Missile Crisis- hitting Florida with an American nuke and blaming the Russians/Cubans.

Kennedy, to his credit regardless of what other opinions people may hold, flipped his lid over it and essentially told the CIA to stuff it for the remainder of his presidency.

[Mira]

There is the old saying, "say a lie long enough and loud enough, people will believe you."  I am surprised that they didn't add that gas bombs containing hallucinogens were set off less than five minutes into the attack, followed by a short lived virus that tainted the city's water system that attacked a special part of the brain causing major paranoia, causing citizens to actually turn on each other with the weapons they had on hand...

[Dina]

To the OP:
Think this. Imagine that tomorrow, in middle of this pandemic, future elections, and things like that Chicago is all but destroyed. You are not there. But perhaps you or something you know have family there. And that family survived and tells you all what happened. A big Titan, monsters in the streets. At the same time you read in newspapers, social networks (Supernatural people uses social networks too, except for the wizards), TV, radio tells you that there was a terrorist attack, and some massive allucinations around, probably because of gases or drugs or whatever.
Who would you believe? Wouldn't you think that perhaps the Chicagoan were traumatized for so much slaughter, pain, destruction?

I have an example more on point that WW2 or the nuclear bombs, which were natural. Do you believe the Fatima miracles actually happened? Only around 100 years ago, not 600 or anything, in a time were some cameras already existed and some skepticism were around, literally hundreds of people claim to have seen the Virgin Mary. And more than once. Yes, there are not 8 million people, but there are quite a bunch. And do you, personally, believe it? Probably not, because they told you that they are lying or they had been victims of massive hysteria. Why wouldn't the same logic apply to Chicago?

That said, it's obvious that not everyone will believe the official story. But if denial happens even about tragic real natural things why wouldn't it happen for supernatural things, and much more. We all want to sleep better at night.

Still, I wouldn't go with terrorism. I would have gone, as suggested, with a hurricane or something. And then I would have said that gangs terrorized people who where in such a state of desperation, panic and pain that they thought they were monsters.

[Mira]

Still, I wouldn't go with terrorism. I would have gone, as suggested, with a hurricane or something. And then I would have said that gangs terrorized people who where in such a state of desperation, panic and pain that they thought they were monsters.

It could work if one goes with that the water and air were poisoned, and it affected people's minds to the point where absolute chaos ruled.  Private citizens in this country have access to weapons and things to inflict that kind of damage on themselves and their city under the influence of a mind altering drug.  Then the national government could take up the cause, they don't really know what happened but they cannot admit to that.. So they will pick one of the usual suspect groups from one of the usual suspect countries, blame them and retaliate!  Many will die and we will all feel better because the deaths were avenged..