Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)

[Arjan]

After Mab's comment in BG about mortality, I'd bet money he stays as mortal as any wizard.

The gatekeeper might be borderline immortal. Mab started as a mortal probably wizard. Kemmler nearly became an immortal.

It is completely possible that he reaches for some power up that pushes him even more in the direction of immortality. He already has better than wizard healing.wizard is just a step between normal mortal and immortal.

It might even be a continuum.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

She liked those men and she trained with those men, she knows several of them personally. And I think that was exactly the reason she ended up in Valhalla, the attitude rubbed off.
And they respected her. It will be fine.
And you don't need a steed your size, a bigger one will do just fine. It might even better.
Harry won't stay mortal for long.

Harry has already died see Ghost Story, it’s not his fault it didn’t take, and he has been chosen by Gard. If anyone can get in Harry can. He just needs to concentrate on how he felt dead when opening the portal.

[Mira]

Harry has already died see Ghost Story, it’s not his fault it didn’t take, and he has been chosen by Gard. If anyone can get in Harry can. He just needs to concentrate on how he felt dead when opening the portal.

No, he was only mostly dead.  Mab got to him before he was all dead, he never was a ghost in Ghost Story.

[Arjan]

No, he was only mostly dead.  Mab got to him before he was all dead, he never was a ghost in Ghost Story.

Depends on your definition of dead and ghost. Was corpstaker dead? she was as dead as Harry and trying to get back back.

I think we can trust Lea in this:

“When Corpsetaker’s spirit still dwelt upon the mortal coil, even bodies with latent talent were hospitable enough for her to exercise her full power. But thanks to you, and like you, my dear godson, she has passed beyond the threshold between life and death. Now she requires a body with a much greater inherent talent in order to use her gifts once she is inside it.”

Harry was dead. Just not gone.

[Logistics515]

She has not come back as a Valkyrie (yet...), but she was taken to Valhalla to be an Einherjarn (despite being catholic and noticeably so in this book). So, that point of objection to her not coming back as a supernatural being is pretty much kaputt.

I personally don't believe that she is really out of the series yet, since Jim doesn't like to discard characters that easily. IMHO, she'll be back, maybe next book, maybe in a few, as an "exception to the rule" (because fictional rules are made to be broken) and either as a straight Valkyrie or as an Einherjarn.

I'm expecting her to be back in 2 books. Remember way back in Dead Beat?

My boy. There’s so much still ahead of you.
So much? I whispered.
Pain. Joy. Love. Death. Heartache. Terrible waters. Despair. Hope.
I wish I could have been with you longer. I wish I could have helped you prepare for it.

Battle Ground just hit the "Terrible Waters" of that sequence. Next comes Despair...which would match up to Mirror Mirror with Harry gallivanting around an alternate universe. Harry is going to be interacting with people who will be stabbing all of his emotional wounds. Alternate-Karrin, for instance who might be alive and not particularly friendly. I can imagine Butcher cackling to himself and having there be an alternate-Rudolph who embraced the Supernatural and he's forced to help him out for the whole book. There would be a lot of potential character growth there, but it would also be complete torture the entire time.

The book after Mirror Mirror is I believe the Wrestling book, which would correspond with Hope. I expect this is the book he gets Murphy and Thomas back.

[bigdangmoose]

Depends on your definition of dead and ghost. Was corpstaker dead? she was as dead as Harry and trying to get back back.

I think we can trust Lea in this:
Harry was dead. Just not gone.

Nope, more of a coma. And he wasn't a ghost, he was him, soul and all walking around. Bob even said so in their talk to save Forthill.

[Mr. Death]

I'm expecting her to be back in 2 books. Remember way back in Dead Beat?

Battle Ground just hit the "Terrible Waters" of that sequence. Next comes Despair...which would match up to Mirror Mirror with Harry gallivanting around an alternate universe. Harry is going to be interacting with people who will be stabbing all of his emotional wounds. Alternate-Karrin, for instance who might be alive and not particularly friendly. I can imagine Butcher cackling to himself and having there be an alternate-Rudolph who embraced the Supernatural and he's forced to help him out for the whole book. There would be a lot of potential character growth there, but it would also be complete torture the entire time.

The book after Mirror Mirror is I believe the Wrestling book, which would correspond with Hope. I expect this is the book he gets Murphy and Thomas back.

Every one of those things happens in every Dresden book.

[forumghost]

Nope, more of a coma. And he wasn't a ghost, he was him, soul and all walking around. Bob even said so in their talk to save Forthill.

I mean he was dead enough that Uriel had a job opening lined up for him in Ghost Chicago if he decided not to 'move on', so he certainly seems to have been pretty dead, but sure.

[Mr. Death]

His soul wasn't in his body. That seems pretty much the standard definition of "dead" to me.

[bigdangmoose]

His soul wasn't in his body. That seems pretty much the standard definition of "dead" to me.

I do see your point about that. But because it's the Dresden Files, it makes it a gray area. He would have been alive because of Mab, but Uriel pulled him out before she could claim him. Mab kept him alive with help. So his body never died, he was never a ghost, that there is a claim that he was just in a coma. But with your point, it could be claimed that he died. That's why it's a gray area

[morriswalters]

Death is becoming absolutely meaningless in the Dresdenverse.  If Murphy can come back, why not Susan.  And why have a mushy funeral for Murphy, since she isn't dead.  She got drafted into the Foreign Legion. And they took the body to boot.

[Arjan]

Nope, more of a coma. And he wasn't a ghost, he was him, soul and all walking around. Bob even said so in their talk to save Forthill.

We have a dualistic worldview here, there is a material and an immaterial part of you. Your body can be in coma but if your soul and spirit are gone you are dead.

Your body can be in prime health but without the immaterial parts, spirit and soul, it is just dead matter. Mab and demonreach and the parasite were just keeping the body alive but Harry was dead.

Then were was his soul? together with his spirit wandering around on a task for Uriel (ultimately for himself but that is Uriel as we know him)

He was in afterlife. Just not beyond reach.

A ghost is simply a part of your spirit you leave behind when you go on. A shade is you when you refuse to go on and somehow nobody claims you like what happened with Karen. Spirit and soul together. Still free will but dead.

You could say that Harry was a ghost with a soul. It is just not how we usually look at it but it is as logical as a body with or without a soul.

There is a few lines from a beowulf translation I remember:

He saw in the hall,  all huddled together.
The heroes asleep, then laugh in his heart.
The hideous foe, he hoped ere dawn.
To sunder body and soul of each.

That is the worldview. In that worldview when someone is on coma and life support the important question is:

Is his soul still there? If so you keep the life support running, if not you can pull the plug.

[Mira]

Nope, more of a coma. And he wasn't a ghost, he was him, soul and all walking around. Bob even said so in their talk to save Forthill.

Also Mab said that it is a spectrum, there is a point where one cannot return, Harry never got to that point.   It wasn't just Bob that said he wasn't a ghost, it was Morty as well, and he should know.

[Mr. Death]

I do see your point about that. But because it's the Dresden Files, it makes it a gray area. He would have been alive because of Mab, but Uriel pulled him out before she could claim him. Mab kept him alive with help. So his body never died, he was never a ghost, that there is a claim that he was just in a coma. But with your point, it could be claimed that he died. That's why it's a gray area

Right -- dead, but not gone.

Death is becoming absolutely meaningless in the Dresdenverse.  If Murphy can come back, why not Susan.  And why have a mushy funeral for Murphy, since she isn't dead.  She got drafted into the Foreign Legion. And they took the body to boot.

She's dead. Harry can attest, the soul was gone. And -- to anyone's knowledge -- she isn't coming back. Gard ought to be an authority on that subject. Nobody who knew and loved her in life is ever going to see her again. Heck, you could interpret Gard's comments (specifically, that Murphy has "earned her rest") to mean she's not even going to be active and conscious for a while, either.

[Arjan]

Also Mab said that it is a spectrum, there is a point where one cannot return, Harry never got to that point.   It wasn't just Bob that said he wasn't a ghost, it was Morty as well, and he should know.

He was not just a ghost, depending how you look at it. Words are not always used that precisely in the books partially because “Shade Story” just does not ring well and partly because as morty said even the ghost/shade itself does not always know. but the similarities are so big that it took Marty quite some time to figure it out if he ever did. His words at the end were not that clear.

Of course by now it is quite clear. A pity we never heard them talking shop after his return.