Battle Ground spoilers: Harry’s pairing. What do you think?

[StrayDog]

I am still opposed to marrying someone who wants to eat you.

Not much different from real life 

[StrayDog]

Huh? What are you talking about. Molly and Lara, lovers? While I would love to see that with Harry included, I haven't seen anything suggesting it.

"How tall do the letters have to be?" - Red Cap

[Bad Alias]

"How tall to the letters have to be?" - Red Cap

Much taller.

[StrayDog]

Much taller.

Two references to throuples during PT, conflict between Molly and Lara from the beginning of PT, Molly's prior encounters with the White Court, Molly stating that the year is also for Lara's sake, Molly's Catholic upbringing highlighted in exchange between Friedah & Murphy, Harry's reference to Mab marrying Lara, etc

[bigdangmoose]

Two references to throuples during PT, conflict between Molly and Lara from the beginning of PT, Molly's prior encounters with the White Court, Molly stating that the year is also for Lara's sake, Molly's Catholic upbringing highlighted in exchange between Friedah & Murphy, Harry's reference to Mab marrying Lara, etc

Yeah, no. I think you have wishful thinking there. Why did Molly give Lara a death stare in chapter 2 of BG. There is nothing going on between them.

Maybe I'm missing that your pulling our legs

[StrayDog]

Yeah, no. I think you have wishful thinking there. Why did Molly give Lara a death stare in chapter 2 of BG. There is nothing going on between them.

Maybe I'm missing that your pulling our legs

Not pulling your legs, just expressing a theory. By chapter 2 of BG the relationship has been going for a while. The frosties started when Lara first talked to Mab about " a closer relationship ". If Molly were involved with Lara, how would her devote Catholic parents take THAT ... on top of being Winter Lady ... and compromising her soul?

[bigdangmoose]

Yeah, I have to say your reaching in that theory. Sorry. Nothing has shown that Molly has ever had any idea of having a relationship with Lara. But we have had multiple times shown to us that she would stay away from any relationship with the WCourt. Example: Cold Case. Didn't go well for Carlos. Another example: Molly almost dying in TC. If she didn't 8the shield up in time she would have been fed on by Thomas.

[StrayDog]

Yeah, I have to say your reaching in that theory. Sorry. Nothing has shown that Molly has ever had any idea of having a relationship with Lara. But we have had multiple times shown to us that she would stay away from any relationship with the WCourt. Example: Cold Case. Didn't go well for Carlos. Another example: Molly almost dying in TC. If she didn't 8the shield up in time she would have been fed on by Thomas.

Both excellent points but Mab explains why the mantel protected itself against Carlos. Kind of hard for Lara to get Molly PG. The shield came up because Molly  knew it wasn't Thomas but The Hunger.

[Rigil Kent]

It seems to me that Mab has probably more than one or two reasons for wanting to marry Harry to Lara.

I'd argue, given what we've seen in recent books, that Mab always tries to protect Harry (despite Harry's objections that she would only care for a Knight who can protect himself, she's been doing a lot to help him or prevent him from doing mistakes). So I assume that her main reason for her to make them marry is to protect Harry. She wanted it to happen right away. Why? Most people thought it was to torture Harry, but what had just happened? Harry had just been kicked off the WC, so he's basically defenseless. An alliance/marriage with Lara would mean one thing to Harry's potential enemies: if you attack him, you attack the WCV. Mab cannot protect her Knight openly, or it would make him look weak, but by giving him an ally who is basically a Chief of State of an Accorded Nation, attacking Harry would mean a lot more to potential random enemies (it's not gonna stop Mavra or some crazies/really powerful enemies, but it can stop others).

Second, Mab has to repay the favors she owes to Lara, and from her point of view, there's no reason not to strengthen Winter's position by making a more permanent and reliable ally out of the WCV, especially since Lara is such a good political player.

Third, the marriage is meant to piss off Molly, and to basically tell her to forget her human emotions and to start acting like a Queen of Winter. Mab said she was lacking and too dangerous to become Mab right now. Considering what we've seen about Mab, it's probably about being "cold" enough to put your feelings aside and do what's necessary. And Molly can't say no to Harry and will always run to help him, even if it means somewhat endangering her duties as a Winter Queen or exhausting herself and leaving her vulnerable.

Fourth, it widens the gap between Harry and the WC. From what we've seen at the end of BG, the Accorded Nations don't trust the WC, or they would have invited them to their private talks. One-Eye and Mab at least know that they're probably at least somewhat directed by either Nemesis or the Black Council (or both). It also protects Harry from the WC, because basically killing Harry would mean waging war on two Accorded Nations, which even the WC might be reluctant to do, especially in their weakened state.

Fifth, it protects Harry from Lara. She might be a "good guy" nowadays, but she still puts her interests or that of her family/Court first. Making Harry part of that family would make her less likely to kill him for political reasons.

Also, I agree that Lara totally knew what she was asking. She's completely in femme fatale falling for the detective mode right now. Freydis told us as much in PT.

This is very well phrased and tracks with my thinking. Plus, it'll (hopefully) give us a dumpster fire for a wedding that will be absolutely hysterical to read. "The wedding cake was on fire and it was my grandfather's fault."

[ClintACK]

And (not sure I have posted that already somewhere) maybe Mab intends Lara to teach Harry how to behave diplomatically on political events. To prepare him for a more politically active role for Winter.

This. Only it's Mab's special teaching (like her style of physical therapy). When Harry is consort to the White Queen, there will be a whole court of socially-adept manipulative succubi and incubi gunning for him. It's sink or swim time.

The most grievous wounds he took in Peace Talks/Battle Ground were on the social battlefield. He lost the friendship and trust of Ramirez and the political support of Martha Liberty... lost face in front of the whole Accords with his Freydis/Lara shenanigans... damaged his relationship with his grandfather... and ended up being looked at by Chicagoans like a monster rather than a savior.

He really needs to learn to defend his reputation and relationships -- and joining the White Court will be the social combat boot camp from Hell.

[Basil]

Didn't we learn in an earlier book that a single "normal" feeding from a WCV is not particularly harmful and it's akin to the victim getting some very strenuous exercise?  The problem occurs because of repeated feedings, the addiction and the accumulated damage. 

It seems as if Dresden repeatedly describes his routine for keeping the Winter Knight's mantle in check as incredibly strenuous exercise -- running miles on the beach weighted down, etc.  So, it would seem that Harry probably has the fatal aspects of being married to Lara covered.

I suppose that if Mab instructed Lara not to attempt to use the WCV "whammy" on Harry, that it would cover the other bad effects. 

[Mira]

  Oh she is simply too old for him.

[Arjan]

Mab is older.

[StrayDog]

My WAG on the what went down in my best guess timetable

1. The Wvamps release the "How To" info to Bram Stoker causing the Blamps (Black Court Vamps) to be almost wiped out. Dracul carries a grudge.

2. Mauvra makes a deal with Bianca to train her in magic so she can assend, kill Dresden, etc, etc in exchange for the Ramps help in wiping out the Wamps. This didn't turn out so well for Bianca.

3. Harry gets the Word and gives it to Mauvra. Que sinister foreboding music.

4. Lara hires Vadderung and Valkyrie, learns the Blamps have something going on as pay back. One-Eye tells her the best person to help against that is Dresden.

5. Lara calls in her markers with Mab to have use of the Winter Knight with an option of retaining him long term. The remaining 2 favors are up to Harry and Lara to work out.

6. The Thomas assassination attempt creates problems in Lara's plans.

7. Poorly crafted and executed (Mab's opinion) rescue puts Winter in a very bad light with the Accorded Nations. Molly, checking up on Harry's negotiations with Lara, finds out that they are in fact bull riding in the exercise room. This triggers Molly's Mantel with jealousy but more strongly territorialism. After all that is Winter's (her) Knight. Three nations (Mab, Odin, Ferrovax) see the escape, Mab is NOT impressed.

8.Everyone survives the battle and Lara says she wants the Winter Knight's service (not marriage) going forward but leaves too much wiggle room for Mab.

Up next, a subplot of the Blamps attacking the Wamps. Harry, the betrothed, helps his future bride as is required but violates Council of Weasels, er, Wizards rules and they order his execution.

[Mira]

There is something going on between Lara and Molly, whether it's simply a matter of Molly not wanting Lara to have Harry or something unknown to us.  However if looks could kill, turn you into an ice cube and ship you off to Siberia, that is the stare that Molly gave Lara when they landed on shore after battling the Kracken.  Molly wasn't happy about the marriage proposal/order, that much is clear, but
unlike Harry, she knows better than to fight the boss, and kept Harry from doing the same. 

If the marriage doesn't happen it will be because Molly will have come up with a solution that won't allow it.  I know, Harry can let Thomas out of jail, Mab can heal him and then marry him, the White Court/Winter Court alliance would still be good.  I've never heard that Thomas and Justine were married.