Duopoly one if the worst “books” in the series-SPOILERS

[Mira]

The point wasn't, "Thomas thought that attacking Etri would save Justine and the kid."

The point was, "Nemfected Justine told him, 'Kill Etri, or Justine and your baby die.'"

He didn't think it would help. He knew it wouldn't. But he had to do it or else Justine and the kid die. It's basically a hostage situation.

Could be, or Justine has been manipulating him from the beginning.  Here is a thought, Nemeses has been manipulating Justine from the get go.  When Thomas and Justine fell in love it made it's task more difficult so it gave Justine the idea to bring a friend in to break the protection.  Thus they could once again make love and Nemeses could continue to manipulate.

[Telynn]

I honestly don't think it was "in cold blood," I think the massive screw-up just screwed up again. I think it was an accidental shot... This is terrible, and ugly, because it means Murph was a casualty of something so damn small. This should play out in an interesting way, but honestly is pretty ugh. I want to see Rudolph scarred by this, don't Dresden's reaction, but his stupid mistake.

Anyone else suspect that Mab helped Rudolph along to his stupid, awful action?

[Mr. Death]

Could be, or Justine has been manipulating him from the beginning.  Here is a thought, Nemeses has been manipulating Justine from the get go.  When Thomas and Justine fell in love it made it's task more difficult so it gave Justine the idea to bring a friend in to break the protection.  Thus they could once again make love and Nemeses could continue to manipulate.

The Walker says that he'd only been in Justine since she got close to Lara, and I don't see a reason to lie there (if it even could, given Harry's abilities over Outsiders).

When does Even Hand take place, again? I thought the events there might be where it happened, but I think it's after Justine gets close to Lara.

[Arjan]

The Walker says that he'd only been in Justine since she got close to Lara, and I don't see a reason to lie there (if it even could, given Harry's abilities over Outsiders).

When does Even Hand take place, again? I thought the events there might be where it happened, but I think it's after Justine gets close to Lara.

Between turncoat and changes according to the Brief Cases short story collection.

[Mira]

The Walker says that he'd only been in Justine since she got close to Lara, and I don't see a reason to lie there (if it even could, given Harry's abilities over Outsiders).

When does Even Hand take place, again? I thought the events there might be where it happened, but I think it's after Justine gets close to Lara.

She became Lara's secretary at the end of Blood Rites, that is pretty close but it may have been a while before Nemeses decided to take advantage of that.

[Mr. Death]

Between turncoat and changes according to the Brief Cases short story collection.

OK, so yeah, that's a little later than what the Walker said.

She became Lara's secretary at the end of Blood Rites, that is pretty close but it may have been a while before Nemeses decided to take advantage of that.

The question is still one of opportunity, though. When she could have been possessed. Though given we don't know the mechanisms of it -- whether she'd need to be out or captured somewhere for a while -- it's hard to narrow it down.

Unless Lara's the one who infected her, but that's a WAG at best.

[Mira]

The question is still one of opportunity, though. When she could have been possessed. Though given we don't know the mechanisms of it -- whether she'd need to be out or captured somewhere for a while -- it's hard to narrow it down.

Unless Lara's the one who infected her, but that's a WAG at best.

I don't think Lara had anything to do with it.  In Grave Peril she was captured along with Susan.  Susan got half turned I think out of spite by Bianca, supposedly nothing happened to Justine.  However it was at that very party that Cowl gave Lea the Knife infected with Nemeses.  So it is plausible that if they knew the connection between her, Thomas, and the White Court, with the help from Bianca, Justine was also infected.  That is a WAG, but plausible because of the connections..

At the end of Blood Rites, she then becomes Lara's secretary/assistant and supposedly was doing some spying for Harry as well.  We know all the Outsider connections with the White Court so it is also plausible that it was set up then.

[Arjan]

I don't think Lara had anything to do with it.  In Grave Peril she was captured along with Susan.  Susan got half turned I think out of spite by Bianca, supposedly nothing happened to Justine.  However it was at that very party that Cowl gave Lea the Knife infected with Nemeses.  So it is plausible that if they knew the connection between her, Thomas, and the White Court, with the help from Bianca, Justine was also infected.  That is a WAG, but plausible because of the connections..

At the end of Blood Rites, she then becomes Lara's secretary/assistant and supposedly was doing some spying for Harry as well.  We know all the Outsider connections with the White Court so it is also plausible that it was set up then.

The problem with an infection that early is that she did not look that important in Grave Peril. Pappa Raith was in power and Thomas was a spoiled brat soon to be killed by his father just like the other ones.

[Bad Alias]

The problem with an infection that early is that she did not look that important in Grave Peril. Pappa Raith was in power and Thomas was a spoiled brat soon to be killed by his father just like the other ones.

Thomas was Harry's brother. Plenty of "people" seemed to know then. Why not Nemesis? That's reason enough.

The real problem with Grave Peril is that Justine was infected after Blood Rites. That's what HWWBeside said anyway.

[Mira]

The problem with an infection that early is that she did not look that important in Grave Peril. Pappa Raith was in power and Thomas was a spoiled brat soon to be killed by his father just like the other ones.

But things are not always what they seem, what better way to plant someone who would then work her way up to being important?  That way Nemeses could hang out in plain sight in a crazy girl who's only value seemingly was as kine...

The real problem with Grave Peril is that Justine was infected after Blood Rites. That's what HWWBeside said anyway.

HWWBesde only said since Justine became close to Lara.  However HWWBeside is an Outsider, which isn't the same as Nemeses is it?  So the Nemeses infection could happened earlier.  It is a bit confusing though because HWWBeside is a Walker, an Outsider, but Harry also call him Nemeses, are they the same thing or not?  If not, the two could have happened at different times.  As I said, at Bianca's party the Knife infected with Nemeses was given to Lea.. Justine could have been infected then, which softened her up for the Walker to take over later.  I don't know but it all seems plausible.

[Mr. Death]

What the thing says is that it is Nemesis. Then it gives its name. The Walker clearly equates the two, and says that it possessed Justine after she got close to Lara.

Ergo, Justine was not infected until she became close to Lara, and that doesn't happen until well after Blood Rites.

[Mira]

What the thing says is that it is Nemesis. Then it gives its name. The Walker clearly equates the two, and says that it possessed Justine after she got close to Lara.

Ergo, Justine was not infected until she became close to Lara, and that doesn't happen until well after Blood Rites.

Not well after, at the end of Blood Rites Justine is in a wheel chair having almost died saving Thomas.  She becomes Lara's secretary shortly after..  Problem, Harry calls it Nemeses, an Outsider, and a Walker.. We know that a Walker is an Outsider knight, but are Outsiders really Nemeses?

[Regenbogen]

Anyone else suspect that Mab helped Rudolph along to his stupid, awful action?

I don't think so. That would not have been necessary. She would have had Harry married to Lara with Murphy still alive. Wouldn't matter to her. Harry would have had to ask her permission to marry anyway and she would have said no to Murphy (assuming Murphy would even have wanted to marry Harry) and told him to choose Lara.

[Mira]

What the thing says is that it is Nemesis. Then it gives its name. The Walker clearly equates the two, and says that it possessed Justine after she got close to Lara.

Ergo, Justine was not infected until she became close to Lara, and that doesn't happen until well after Blood Rites.

Yes, it gets confusing or Jim confused in that reveal.  When Harry discovered that Cat Sith was infested with Nemeses, it was just Nemeses, no mention of Walkers or Outsiders, the same with Leah and Maeve.  So without someone who suspects, Nemeses could hang out for a long time undetected.  Nobody in the Winter Court, suspected Cat Sith or Maeve for that matter of being infected until it was too late.  Now Justine may have gotten the full viral load as they say,and that took place later.

[BrainFireBob]

Not well after, at the end of Blood Rites Justine is in a wheel chair having almost died saving Thomas.  She becomes Lara's secretary shortly after..  Problem, Harry calls it Nemeses, an Outsider, and a Walker.. We know that a Walker is an Outsider knight, but are Outsiders really Nemeses?

I don't follow the last question.

The Outsider Walker named "He Who Walks Beside" is commonly known as Nemesis. He's a specific Outsider, who specializes in infiltration. I rather think Demonreach was setup to deny him access to hosts he'd otherwise infected, and therefore free to deny their natures.

On the overall topic: Nemesis-infected Maeve told Justine she'd be seeing things Maeve's way soon. This is either recognition of a latent infection, or identification of where Nemesis "jumped," if that is its mechanism, when Maeve died. At that point, a couple of years prior, Justine was an ideal target, close to Lara, etc. I rather think people are looking too far back for Justine's exposure.