Author Topic: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any  (Read 8464 times)

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« on: September 28, 2020, 05:36:00 AM »
No, the title of this thread isn’t a joke or an attempt at a clever play on words.  I’m am quite serious when say there are no continuity errors in the Dresden Files novels, many of us just think there are.  Let me also state that the idea that various discrepancies of the descriptions of things, names and events; particularly in Peace Talks, that have been pointed out by many readers, are not due to poor editing or the failure of the Beta readers to point out these discrepancies to Jim.  Let me put it another way, these things aren’t bugs in the story telling, they’re a feature.  My guess is I am not the only reader to have figured this out, just the first to put it in writing on this forum.  For all I know someone on Reddit has already laid this all out.  Also, I’m not claiming Jim has been perfect, that he hasn’t made any mistakes.  He’s human after all.  It’s just that the vast majority of any mistakes; and any deliberate retcons, are covered by what Jim has actually been doing.
 
The big clue that most of us missed; including myself, was in Skin Game.  It’s so obvious I can’t believe it took me this long to figure it out.  I’ll just quote directly from chapter 14, but skip the dialog and edit the scene a bit.  It’s the one where Harry is dreaming.  No, not the sex fantasy part of it.

“…as I caught up to the action that was happening in the dream, it would roar off in a different direction… The whole while, I was conscious of several other Harry Dresdens in the dream, all of them operating a little ways off from me, doing their own confusion dance in parallel to mine…..

Harry then talks to Molly and they discover that they are somehow communicating with each other over a vast distance while both of them are dreaming.  At this point Harry sees himself in his old car, the Blue Beetle, with Molly sitting beside him.  After the dialog ends this happens.

“… I was suddenly driving in a small herd of Blue Beetles, all of them filled with slightly different versions of Harry Dresden and Molly Carpenter.  I had to slalom the VW through them….. The traffic got worse and worse and more confusing, and then there was a loud screech of tires and twisting metal, a bright light, and a sensation of tumbling and falling in an exaggerated graceful slow motion.”

The first part of the dream sequence that I quoted uses the word parallel in it.  I don’t think that’s an accident.  This is the part of the clue that seals the deal for me.  The second part of the dream sequence; the part where all the different Harry and Molly’s are coming together and there’s a crash, that’s telling us that things are coming to a head.  Harry can’t understand this, but we can because we know that a confrontation is coming up with a Harry from a radically different universe in Mirror Mirror.  The evidence that this dream isn’t a dream at all, but our Harry’s universe coming in close proximity to the other universes, is the fact that Harry and Molly’s communication with one another is real.  They aren’t dreaming.  That means the things Harry perceives in what he thinks is a dream are also real.
 
So, to put it plainly, the Dresden Files are occurring in multiple parallel universes, at the same time.  In the ones where Harry sees “slightly different versions of Harry Dresden and Molly Carpenter,” the same major events have occurred.  Harry has wiped out the Red Court, the Fomor have risen up from the deep and are at war with the White Council and other various supernatural powers, Harry isn’t trusted by most of the White Council, Harry’s relationship with his boss Mab, is strained at the best of times and Harry’s relationship with John Marcone appears to be near the point of breaking into outright hostility.  I could list several other points of congruence, but I’m sure you get the general idea.
 
In at least one parallel world, Mort Lindquist has purchased, and lives in a home with a particular architectural style, while in another parallel universe Mort lives in a different neighborhood in a home with a different architecture style.  In either universe Harry knows Mort’s address and their interactions with one another are identical or nearly so.  In one parallel universe the Churchmice stole the Shroud of Turin for John Marcone, but Nicodemus and company stole the shroud and murdered two members of the Churchmice before Marcone could take delivery.  In another parallel universe the Churchmice were contracted by Nicodemus to steal the Shroud of Turin, but Marcone offered them more money so they headed to Chicago and Nicodemus murdered two of them in return.  In at least one universe the Chicago anti-Fomor alliance calls themselves The Brighter Future Society while in another universe they call their alliance The Better Future Society.  In at least one of the worlds with a Better Future Society, Harry had never been to Marcone’s castle in the flesh before Peace Talks, because the meeting between Marcone and Mab that took place in Skin Game occurred at a different Marcone property or possibly at Mac’s or even Arctis Tor.  It doesn’t matter where that meeting took place, as long as it wasn’t at the castle and it was a place that Harry could discover and go to.  I could go on, but you’re probably getting worn out by now.

I think you can see how Jim making the story flow through multiple parallel universes also neatly explains likely retcons, such as Harry’s ability to use a wind spell to literally fly up from the lower floor of Victor Sells home to the second floor and make a nice landing in Storm Front, to Harry saying in a later book that flying spells are extremely dangerous and a thing he learned to avoid after trying to create a flying broom.  In one universe Harry can fly, at least a little.
 
Finally, I said that parallel universes can cover most mistakes, but I didn’t say they could cover every mistake.  I don’t know if this final example I will pull from Peace Talks is a mistake, but it appears to me that even a parallel universe doesn’t entirely fix its problems.  Ramirez used a dot of magical ink to track Harry to the Raith Estate.  While it’s possible that in one universe Harry and Ramirez shook hands instead of bumping fists; and this allowed Carlos the ability stick the ink spot on Harry’s wrist, in either universe Butters should have washed the dot away when he cleaned and debrided the wounds on Harry’s hands.  I’m not saying it’s impossible to find an explanation that makes the magical ink stick and not be noticed by Butters; and do so in both universes, but the more complicated the explanation the less believable it becomes.
 
One minor thing to note.  While it’s possible we will see some evidence to back up my analysis in Battle Ground, I don’t expect to be fully vindicated until Mirror Mirror comes out.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 06:04:00 AM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline magical_liopleurodon

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2020, 09:47:05 AM »
damn that's good

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2020, 12:51:21 PM »
This could be the case with some errors, others may be due to things we the reader is unaware of or are an in joke by Jim.

The reference to the Notre Dame fire may be a misconception on the part of the reader may be the latter, he could legitimately be referring to a historic fire which destroyed the Notre Dame University Building over a century ago, which in the context of the architecture of Raith Manor actually makes sense, the Manor was built in the style of that other significant Midwest building.

Another  oft cited example is Alfred/Arthur Langtry, we the reader don’t know Arthur Langtrey’s full name (and we are repeatedly told the power of a full name in relation to Harry). Eb would know Langtrey’s full name, which might be Alfred Arthur Lily Langtrey, for all we know. In that context the use of Alfred by Eb isn’t a mistake by Jim, it’s a deliberate threat by Eb against Langtrey which in the context makes perfect sense, Eb was threatening him.

Therefore if your theory is consistent, things said and done by Harry which are inconsistencies within the files are deliberate because they are essential to the multiverse plot. Historical inconsistencies like Notre Dame and Alfred are actually deliberate red herrings, salted around the books to drag our attention away from the plot essential inconsistencies and hide them in plain sight amongst the non-essential.

Tunguska may be either, version one had Eb causing it, version two had the death of a dragon, it’s depends on which Eb told which Harry, the dragon may have been the cover story for a hit and Eb of Peace Talks didn’t trust that Harry with the truth.

If this is correct this should come to a head in Mirror, Mirror, that we have seen up to 16 different Harry’s from widely similar universes to whom all the same major events have occurred, some upgraded their summoning ring others didn’t, some visited the BFS in person, others didn’t and these are the universes which will survive as they have a Harry who is is a true Starborn. All other Dresden universes (such as Mirror, Mirror) contain a failed Harry, a Destroyer, and these Universes are doomed and will be destroyed whether by the Outsiders or the White God to prevent them falling to the Outsiders and the rest of the multiverse with them.

This may mean we get to see at some point a Conclave of Harry’s (the Merlin’s worst nightmare) as when all the Doctors teamed up to save Gallfey.

The Starborn event not only births Harry, it births a whole slew of parallel universes,  identical from that starting point, branching from it depending upon the choices Harry makes in each of the case files with Mirror, Mirror Harry the bad choice surviving failed Harry of Grave Peril, for all we know failed Storm Front Harry and failed Fool Moon Harry died at the hands of Victor Sells and the Loupe Garou, as intended by the Black Council,  failed Grave Peril Harry is the first whose impact is more immediately felt in the wider world and who survived.

Whilst others in universe may be aware of Harry’s significance, they are probably unaware which type of universe they are in a failed or a survivor universe. I think the indicator is when Uriel announces himself to Harry, all universes where this occurs are survivors or potential survivors, presuming the White God and Archangels are simultaneously the same beings across the multiverse, rather than being replicated.

Of course some may just be genuine errors.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 01:07:29 PM by Conspiracy Theorist »

Offline Mira

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2020, 01:02:20 PM »
Quote
Finally, I said that parallel universes can cover most mistakes, but I didn’t say they could cover every mistake.  I don’t know if this final example I will pull from Peace Talks is a mistake, but it appears to me that even a parallel universe doesn’t entirely fix its problems.  Ramirez used a dot of magical ink to track Harry to the Raith Estate.  While it’s possible that in one universe Harry and Ramirez shook hands instead of bumping fists; and this allowed Carlos the ability stick the ink spot on Harry’s wrist, in either universe Butters should have washed the dot away when he cleaned and debrided the wounds on Harry’s hands.  I’m not saying it’s impossible to find an explanation that makes the magical ink stick and not be noticed by Butters; and do so in both universes, but the more complicated the explanation the less believable it becomes.

Maybe not, it depends on where the dot was located and how hard it was scrubbed.  Remember later Harry scrubbed that spot raw when he found out about it.  If I remember correctly the deep gashes were on Harry's palms,  Butters was concerned on getting them cleaned out, which meant he went at them with tweezers, scrub brush and running water, with the water flowing directly on and over the palms.  If there were no wounds on his wrists or the back of his hand, ordinary washing would be in order.. At most clear water would continue to run on them as it flowed off the palms.  So no scrubbing and if the dot was tiny enough on unbroken skin it could easily have been overlooked, because rightly Butters focus was the deep gashes on the palms that had to be completely cleaned. 
So no, in either universe, the dot depending on location and size could easily been over looked by Butters who was focused on the deep very dirty gashes on the palms.  If no skin was broken on the wrist or the back of the hand, no more was needed but ordinary washing and rinsing, not enough to remove the tiny magical dot.

page 115 Peace Talks

Quote
I sat at the table in Butters's apartement kitchen. I had my duster off and both arms resting on the table with my palms up.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 03:02:07 PM by Mira »

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2020, 08:47:22 PM »
It depends on what Jim does to pull it off. A lot of times writers do this sort of thing, they cause more harm than they fix. They're always doing a terrible job with time travel.

We could be in a situation where we've been with one Harry through one universe, but the effects of being pulled through to a parallel universe has affected his memory. The way I see this one making sense is that Harry gets pulled through in Mirror, Mirror. Harry comes back. These two trips have "swiss cheesed" his brain like Sam Beckett in Quantum Leap, but instead of holes in his memories, he has memories from all the Harries from the multiverse or just the ones who've been to the Mirrorverse. Harry makes it, or almost makes it, to the end of the stories. If he makes it, Harry writes the Dresden Files, which are his journals. If he doesn't make it, his ghost, which we know will remain to watch over Maggie dictates them to her, Bob, Bonnie, or Mort. Maybe he writes some of them after Mirror, Mirror. Right "now" all his journals have been burned and he needs to rewrite them.

A counterpoint to this is that Will has a copy of all his journals up to a certain point, according to The Paranet Papers. We could say all the inconsistencies before that point have some other cause or explanation.

For a mistake in DM, I'm pretty sure Larry Fowler got called Jerry that once because that's who Jim had in mind when he was writing the guy.

The dot could have been high enough on his wrist to not get washed off. Ramirez could have pulled off the old Roger Rabbit trick of disappearing reappearing ink. And seeing Ramirez's age, I wouldn't be surprised if he made disappearing reappearing ink because he watched Roger Rabbit as a kid.

Offline Mira

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2020, 08:59:37 PM »


  Going with the simplest explanation, the dot being on his wrist or the back of his hand what were uninjured and only needed a rinsing, never got noticed because Butters had to play close attention to what he was doing, cleaning out those gashes.  It isn't easy to do and leaving any trace of dirt behind can mean a serious infection.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2020, 09:17:12 PM »
Sure, but it's not as fun as a Roger Rabbit reference.  ;)

Offline Mira

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2020, 10:30:46 PM »
Sure, but it's not as fun as a Roger Rabbit reference.  ;)

He could very well have... But Murphy is no Jessica Rabbit. ::)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 11:42:33 PM »
He could very well have... But Murphy is no Jessica Rabbit. ::)
And Harry's no Roger. He's Eddie Valiant.


I was today years old when I realized his last name was the word valiant.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2020, 01:26:18 AM »
Sorry, but ... yeah, isn't this pretty widely known in the fandom?

I vaguely remember a Q&A that I can't place the source of, where Jim said some of them are legitimate errors, especially early on before he had betas (the example being the name of Bianca's favourite who she blamed Harry for upsetting her into draining changing from SF to GP), and others are clues to something bigger. There may also be a few legitimate intentional retcons, but iirc he didn't speak to that in the answer.

And the 'dream' where he's really talking to Molly amid a traffic jam of their alternate selves was a pretty big cluebat that there's an underlying multiverse element going on.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2020, 02:29:43 PM »
damn that's good

Than you.

...
The dot could have been high enough on his wrist to not get washed off. Ramirez could have pulled off the old Roger Rabbit trick of disappearing reappearing ink. And seeing Ramirez's age, I wouldn't be surprised if he made disappearing reappearing ink because he watched Roger Rabbit as a kid.

I had to laugh when I read this part of your post because I thought about Rodger Rabbit and the disappearing reappearing ink, but I was trying to take a serious tone in my OP, so it didn't seem appropriate to mention as a possible solution.

Sorry, but ... yeah, isn't this pretty widely known in the fandom?

I vaguely remember a Q&A that I can't place the source of, where Jim said some of them are legitimate errors, especially early on before he had betas (the example being the name of Bianca's favourite who she blamed Harry for upsetting her into draining changing from SF to GP), and others are clues to something bigger. There may also be a few legitimate intentional retcons, but iirc he didn't speak to that in the answer.

And the 'dream' where he's really talking to Molly amid a traffic jam of their alternate selves was a pretty big cluebat that there's an underlying multiverse element going on.

Yes, Jim hasn't made any secret about the existence of the Dresden Files multiverse.  However, I think many people who read Peace Talks failed to understand that we were seeing the story as it flowed through several nearly, but not quite, identical Dresden universes at the same time.  So; for example, when the placard on Marcone's castle was read as Better Future Society, some people thought Jim had screwed up or the Beta readers let him down.  When Murphy later referred to the Brighter Future Society, at least one reader attributed this and, or other incongruities in Peace Talks as poor editing in the rush to get the novel out.
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Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 11:39:48 PM »
damn that's good
I concur lol. I've had similar ideas, especially for MM. I'm hoping for a sliders/quantum leap style mission to search out the right timeline.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2020, 12:22:56 AM »
The alphas are werewolves, what do the betas turn into?

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2020, 12:58:37 AM »
Great stuff.

Between a few different WOJs, the fact that Jim was heavily inspired by Zelazny's Amber Chronicles (particularly before writing these two books PT and BG), and the fact that BG is THREADED with parallel universe references and moments both overt and otherwise - I'd say you're pretty damn right.

Consider the Immortal fight between Ethniu and Vadderung, the Erlking and Titania. Parallel realities converging with Ethniu's will forcing through her victory. Consider Mab's comments about the cost of branching the Universe. Even Bob's comments about Reality breaking down. And the many "inconsistencies" throughout. Yeah, the next book should hopefully help with all that.
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Offline cleoslemonade

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Re: Dresden Files Continuity Errors – There aren’t any
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2020, 08:56:09 PM »
I love this idea :). I had a really similar one and I made this youtube video about that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkxIjQnvGRo&list=PLzKif11L57eflPLgdKAirKcGuIfE0REHD&index=5

I love that the Dresden Files is so fun and complicated that we can debate whether something is a mistake or from a parallel universe or a consequence of time travel.