We Now Know What/Who Mac Is

[Arjan]

Jim could not show Murphy in Christmas Eve because the story was published before Battle Ground And that would be a big spoiler.

So Murphy not there says absolutely nothing.

[Mira]

Jim could not show Murphy in Christmas Eve because the story was published before Battle Ground And that would be a big spoiler.

So Murphy not there says absolutely nothing.

Or is says a lot, it can be a spoiler without being an overt spoiler.   True, Jim wants us to be in suspense, however Murphy isn't present, Harry is grieving heavily.  Given where the relationship was headed at the end of Skin Game, and where it is as of Peace Talks, it doesn't have to be spelled out, her not being there is a spoiler.

Besides there were plenty of spoilers in Christmas Eve, Harry saved the city apparently but a lot of people died, Mab, Michael, his family, Harry, Molly, Maggie, Kringle, Mouse, and Sarrissa all survived.  Those are spoilers, what we don't know is who is on the butcher's list.

 Another possibility, Harry's worst nightmare did come true, Murphy took up a coin to be able to physically fight.  That could be the Faustian bargain Harry mentioned.  It is a wonder she can get around at all, she cut off her casts, but it isn't just a matter of her knee, elbow, and shoulder being closed to healed anyway and the muscles being weak from being in a cast.. No, she had yet another round of surgery coming up because the damage wasn't fully repaired, then another six months of rehab to be fifty percent of what she was.  So to run around in the street and get hold of a rocket launcher no matter how easy to use, either Mac feels he is in for a penny in for a pound and heals her so she can do it... Or she somehow runs into Nic who'd find it delicious revenge to give a weakened and desperate Murphy an offer she cannot refuse.

Malcolm couldn’t protect Harry, it didn’t matter that Eb liked him, and he made sure he died in a peaceful way.

However that totally flies in the face of what Eb told Harry as to how such a child should be handled. How protected was Harry after Malcolm died?  Did Eb even care enough to keep track of him in case his talent did kick in so he could be properly trained?   

I think the Angel's "Don't hurt yourself"is more than just courtesy of humans not being able to handle an Angels presence with Third Site, I think it's just literally they don't want a stranger to view them that intimately

No, I think it would be the same effect as when he saw the skinwalker with his sight.. Only this time it would be the overwhelming angelic light and beauty that would blind him and bring him pain.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Jim could not show Murphy in Christmas Eve because the story was published before Battle Ground And that would be a big spoiler.

So Murphy not there says absolutely nothing.

Except that Jim loves tormenting us.

Eb’s idea of child raising is to raise the child away from its family anonymously until it expresses any ability. Morgan at least was keeping tabs on the Young Harry, we don’t know who else was, but what happened to Harry is strikingly close to what Eb would have for Maggie and probably what he did to Margaret. Harry saw a pattern he didn’t like and wasn’t going to repeat.

I do not doubt Malcolm was approached by Eb and rebuffed, Eb may have then sought to whammy him, but Eb’s clumsiness and Malcolm’s love for his son may have led to the haemorrhage which killed him. Eb doesn’t strike me as being the subtle sort at mental manipulation like Molly. It didn’t stop Eb achieving his ends.

[Mira]

Except that Jim loves tormenting us.

Eb’s idea of child raising is to raise the child away from its family anonymously until it expresses any ability. Morgan at least was keeping tabs on the Young Harry, we don’t know who else was, but what happened to Harry is strikingly close to what Eb would have for Maggie and probably what he did to Margaret. Harry saw a pattern he didn’t like and wasn’t going to repeat.

I do not doubt Malcolm was approached by Eb and rebuffed, Eb may have then sought to whammy him, but Eb’s clumsiness and Malcolm’s love for his son may have led to the haemorrhage which killed him. Eb doesn’t strike me as being the subtle sort at mental manipulation like Molly. It didn’t stop Eb achieving his ends.

Yes, he is, thought of a fifth reason why Murphy may not be with Harry at Christmas, she is in prison for the murder of Harvey.  That is the only reason why that chapter makes any sense, other than to show that Murphy and Harry are having sex.  But what do those accusations have to do with anything?  There is a whisper in there that Rudolph is under Marcone's thumb, that is why the investigation has been lowered to internal affairs, but Murphy hasn't been on the police force for a number of years now, nor has Harry had anything to do officially with them.  So other than laying the ground for Murphy going to prison, I don't understand why it is in there, if anything it was a distraction from the rest of the story.

However back to the trailer,once again either it is way off or Murphy got a miracle cure.  Just before
she shoulders rocket launcher, she is squatting down to set it up.. Believe me, with a unhealed badly injured knee, that is nearly impossible to do. I still don't get why they didn't do an outright knee replacement in the first place.

Back to Eb, like a lot of us, he has made a lot of mistakes in his life, now he is trying to justify them.
His attack on Harry was so unfair saying he was the one thing in common between the deaths of Margaret, Malcolm, and Susan..  So being born was Harry's fault, being a six year old child while his father died or was murdered was his fault, Susan to some degree, yes, but she also responsible for a lot of it.  Eb, in my opinion felt his job was more important than raising his daughter, so he ignored her, then he was shocked when  she rebelled against his authority as her master. If Harry had known who he was when he went to live with him as an angry sixteen year old kid, it would also have turned out badly.  No, I still think Eb had nothing to do with Malcolm's death, he is just trying to justify his own short comings.  Notice in Morgan's journal, if Eb knew that Margaret asked him to look after Harry, Eb didn't say a word to Morgan about it or offer to help keep tabs on his grandson.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I doubt Rudolph is in the employ of Marcone, Marcone expects his people to be competent, which Rudy is not. It is quite clear that Marcone owns far more senior cops, so it suggests that Rudy is in the pay of someone else, most likely candidate, the White Council and the Merlin faction. They can’t buy anyone in homicide because Marcone got there first. This is why it is Rudy.

They are likely using Rudy to see what Harry was up to with Nicodemus, they know somehow it broke Nicky’s powerbase as Carlos himself acknowledges, but what else? They would have no interest in Murphy (but Rudy has a long-term beef with Murphy, and would let this personal animosity get in the way of his investigation, as I said he isn’t competent).

If push comes to shove, Harry can give evidence of the events leading up to Harvey’s death and point the finger at Tessa, in the wake of Battle Ground, a Denarian culprit will be believable, when before it was not, remember Tilly has a minor practitioners gift, he knows when someone is lying or not. Harry can tell him the truth, be believed and not be institutionalised. I suspect Rudy will do less well against Tilly.

I do give you another option as to why Murphy isn’t around, a restored Murphy is at Quantico, training. If the Feds are serious about the Supernatural then they would snap her up. So Christmas Eve could have Harry having to put Eb away, realising what Eb has done in the past and  him being separated from his girlfriend, and his brother in stasis, and shouldering the guilt of everyone who died.

[Mira]

I doubt Rudolph is in the employ of Marcone, Marcone expects his people to be competent, which Rudy is not. It is quite clear that Marcone owns far more senior cops, so it suggests that Rudy is in the pay of someone else, most likely candidate, the White Council and the Merlin faction. They can’t buy anyone in homicide because Marcone got there first. This is why it is Rudy.

That is up in the air, but; page48 Peace Talks

I rubbed at the spot between my eyes and growled.  "Someone is pulling strings behind the scenes.  They got the case bumped over to one of their people.  Rudolph"
"And Marcone owns Rudolph," Karrin said.  She pursed her lips.  "Or so we assumed."

They are likely using Rudy to see what Harry was up to with Nicodemus, they know somehow it broke Nicky’s powerbase as Carlos himself acknowledges, but what else? They would have no interest in Murphy (but Rudy has a long-term beef with Murphy, and would let this personal animosity get in the way of his investigation, as I said he isn’t competent).

But it makes no sense in the context of the book, unless it is a set up for the next book.  Now it may happen but so much is going to go down in Battleground that I doubt we will know for a book or maybe even two.

If push comes to shove, Harry can give evidence of the events leading up to Harvey’s death and point the finger at Tessa, in the wake of Battle Ground, a Denarian culprit will be believable, when before it was not, remember Tilly has a minor practitioners gift, he knows when someone is lying or not. Harry can tell him the truth, be believed and not be institutionalised. I suspect Rudy will do less well against Tilly.

Can he?  They have more against Harry being at the scene than Murphy.  Also he'd be trying to explain supernatural events to a jury.  Then again after Battleground, they might buy it.

I do give you another option as to why Murphy isn’t around, a restored Murphy is at Quantico, training. If the Feds are serious about the Supernatural then they would snap her up. So Christmas Eve could have Harry having to put Eb away, realising what Eb has done in the past and  him being separated from his girlfriend, and his brother in stasis, and shouldering the guilt of everyone who died.

Maybe, but if that were true, I don't think Harry would break down and weep like that, I think it is more.  He'd be sad about Eb, true, but he was an old man and if he died well, I don't see Harry weeping for him.  Thomas may still be on Demonreach, but if he is alive, I don't see Harry weeping for him, there is still hope he'll figure out a solution for him.  Interesting when he put him in stasis Harry mentioned Merlin breaking one of the Laws of Magic, time travel to build Demonreach.  Perhaps this is the excuse he uses to time travel, it is the only way he can see what happened with Thomas?   No, I see Harry weeping for his child, but she lives obviously, so it has to be Murphy.  As I said it also accounts for Mab and Kringle treating him like they did. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It’s Christmas, he is missing his dad, and that loss has recently been brought home to him and magnified, his girlfriend and brother aren’t around to console him, only Maggie keeps him going and she keeps asking where’s Great Grandad, and he is shouldering the guilt of so much other loss.

And he has had to sit through Frozen lots of times.

No wonder Kringles gift helps, it has brought back one of his most treasured memories sharp and into focus for and gave something tangible of his father’s to cherish, pushing away more recent bad memories.

He probably still has to sit through Frozen several more times over The Holidays though.

Meanwhile over in Los Angeles, Carlos is having to sit down with his family at Christmas whilst they watch “The 40 Year Old Virgin” again  instead of Frozen. Then they watch Frozen.

[vultur]

Maybe, but if that were true, I don't think Harry would break down and weep like that, I think it is more.  He'd be sad about Eb, true, but he was an old man and if he died well, I don't see Harry weeping for him

I strongly disagree; I think the conversation between Harry and Murphy about talking to him before it's too late after Harry fights Eb could very well be foreshadowing for this. And Harry seems very torn up to find out how bad of shape Eb's in mentally.

I really don't think Murphy is going to die in BG, I think the series needs her.

[ClintACK]

Maybe, but if that were true, I don't think Harry would break down and weep like that, I think it is more... it has to be Murphy.

I do expect Murphy to die... but...

I can imagine the same emotional impact from a long list of people and places destroyed. Mac's burned to the ground with Mac, Billy, Georgia and a bunch of other eager young paranetters dead because Harry gave them a rousing pep talk rather than urging them to run for the hills; Butters, Andy and Marci dead getting Harry a shot at Ethniu that doesn't pay off; Michael's house firebombed by Nic's goons while the fae are distracted; half the city flattened with an unrecognizable skyline; Yoshimo and Wild Bill dead in an attack Harry led them on; Fix cut down in a blaze of glory -- leaving exactly zero of the changling kids he tried to protect in Summer Knight; Luccio ambushed, bringing a cohort of wardens to reinforce the defenses; Eb killed without a chance to ever take back the things Harry said when they fought on the docks; Justine and the baby dead because Harry pulled off Goodman Grey to look into something else...

The loss he talked about on Christmas Eve was the cumulative loss of a whole bunch of people -- and his usual arrogance of blaming himself for all of it, not just the loss of one lover.

But, yeah... I think Murphy's toast. I just want to see her get a blaze of glory on the way out.

[Mira]

I do expect Murphy to die... but...

I can imagine the same emotional impact from a long list of people and places destroyed. Mac's burned to the ground with Mac, Billy, Georgia and a bunch of other eager young paranetters dead because Harry gave them a rousing pep talk rather than urging them to run for the hills; Butters, Andy and Marci dead getting Harry a shot at Ethniu that doesn't pay off; Michael's house firebombed by Nic's goons while the fae are distracted; half the city flattened with an unrecognizable skyline; Yoshimo and Wild Bill dead in an attack Harry led them on; Fix cut down in a blaze of glory -- leaving exactly zero of the changling kids he tried to protect in Summer Knight; Luccio ambushed, bringing a cohort of wardens to reinforce the defenses; Eb killed without a chance to ever take back the things Harry said when they fought on the docks; Justine and the baby dead because Harry pulled off Goodman Grey to look into something else...

The loss he talked about on Christmas Eve was the cumulative loss of a whole bunch of people -- and his usual arrogance of blaming himself for all of it, not just the loss of one lover.

But, yeah... I think Murphy's toast. I just want to see her get a blaze of glory on the way out.

Yeah, but I wonder how much Harry really wanted to take back?  Because from his point of view it was all true.  The problem is Eb never said he was sorry or that he may have even made a mistake.
He cannot even see why Harry is trying to raise Maggie, even if it may put her some danger.  The emotional damage that was done to both Harry and his mother by Eb's abandonment cannot be measured. 

It’s Christmas, he is missing his dad, and that loss has recently been brought home to him and magnified, his girlfriend and brother aren’t around to console him, only Maggie keeps him going and she keeps asking where’s Great Grandad, and he is shouldering the guilt of so much other loss.

But that is the whole point!  This is the man she loves, knowing him the way she does, if she were alive Murphy would be there helping or even fighting with him on how to put that bike together! I don't buy she is with her family, then "they'd" be with her family.  What is preventing her from being there?  Breakup? Coin? Severe injury? Prison? Or death?   I don't even think becoming an F.B.I. agent would keep her away from Harry on such a night.

[bigdangmoose]

I strongly disagree; I think the conversation between Harry and Murphy about talking to him before it's too late after Harry fights Eb could very well be foreshadowing for this. And Harry seems very torn up to find out how bad of shape Eb's in mentally.

I really don't think Murphy is going to die in BG, I think the series needs her.

As I said before in the thread who's going to die in BG, Harry's going through a changing of the guard with his teammates. We may think the series needs her, but her time as we knew her is over. She's vanilla mortal and stubborn as hell and hurt, not a good combo for survival against supernatural foes.

[Mira]

As I said before in the thread who's going to die in BG, Harry's going through a changing of the guard with his teammates. We may think the series needs her, but her time as we knew her is over. She's vanilla mortal and stubborn as hell and hurt, not a good combo for survival against supernatural foes.

I still think the biggest mistake Jim made was first demoting her then kicking her off the police force.  I think he has been struggling to find the right fit for her ever since. 

[bigdangmoose]

I still think the biggest mistake Jim made was first demoting her then kicking her off the police force.  I think he has been struggling to find the right fit for her ever since.

It might be, but another way of looking at it might be one of setting up the psyche to see how far one can fall before doing something dangerous and completely out of range and abilities. She has fallen to a point so low from where she was in the beginning and Harry just pushed her down even further by telling her to stay put. Yes it's to defend the people of Chicago while Harry goes to defend the city of Chicago, but it's not where she thinks she should be.

Jim has either set her up to find her new click and return in the future with new friends to help in the BAT, or he is setting her up to go in a blaze of glory and gore. Which would be perfect for MM, a story about how much his decisions changed the world, for good and bad.

And no, no power ups for Murphy. Last I heard, Jim said no power ups for her unless it's a bigger gun. So no return as an avenging angel or a new hire for Monoc security. It would cheapen her character.

[Arjan]

It might be, but another way of looking at it might be one of setting up the psyche to see how far one can fall before doing something dangerous and completely out of range and abilities. She has fallen to a point so low from where she was in the beginning and Harry just pushed her down even further by telling her to stay put. Yes it's to defend the people of Chicago while Harry goes to defend the city of Chicago, but it's not where she thinks she should be.

Jim has either set her up to find her new click and return in the future with new friends to help in the BAT, or he is setting her up to go in a blaze of glory and gore. Which would be perfect for MM, a story about how much his decisions changed the world, for good and bad.

And no, no power ups for Murphy. Last I heard, Jim said no power ups for her unless it's a bigger gun. So no return as an avenging angel or a new hire for Monoc security. It would cheapen her character.

That foreshadowing is inescapable. She will get a nuclear bomb.

[Mira]

That foreshadowing is inescapable. She will get a nuclear bomb.

Well, that would be going out in a real blaze of gory...