We Now Know What/Who Mac Is

[Mira]

Obviously Murphy is immediately killed by the giant she just killed with the rocket launcher falling on her. Her last words “totally worth it”.

You don’t think Jim wouldn’t miraculously heal Murphy only to immediately kill her off? That way Jim gets to annoy both the Murphyphiles AND the Murphyphobes in the space of a couple of chapters, AND totally put Harry through the wringer.

Why not?  It isn't like he hasn't pissed off fans in the past.  Also there is more than one giant out there, they have already met up with a giant squid.  And you assume she killed the giant, what if she missed or merely wounded it.  What if shortly after she is swarmed by turtle necks?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Mine is funnier. It plays into Murphy’s need to take down the big guys to make up for her lack of height, she takes down the biggest yet, since the footprint on the beach something like this has been telegraphed.

Murphy miss? Since when? and a target literally as large as a barn door?
pshah,

Mind you, love to see Brioche’s face the next day on the autopsy of a non human giant. If there is any justice Brioche ends up in the funny farm in the aftermath and Butters gets his job.

[Bad Alias]

I don't buy that Michael and Charity are so narrow minded that Murphy wouldn't be welcome as an over night guest on Christmas Eve give how her and Harry feel about one another.

They still have their own children at home. Matthew is 21-22; Alicia about 19; Hope 14 or 15; Amanda 13 1/2; Hank 12 1/2. I don't know how susceptible to that kind of mixed messaging Matthew and Alicia would be, but I doubt Michael and Charity would be want to send that kind of message to the younger ones. Michael was uncomfortable with Harry's relationship with Susan.

Additionally, they might have a full house already with all the kids back for Christmas. Especially if any of the older kids have gotten married. It'd make sense for Harry to be there if he hadn't found a new place to live yet, but not really for Murphy to not just come over in the morning. Before my grandmother passed, our family had gotten to the size that some of us stayed with my uncle because there just wasn't enough room for us all to stay at my grandmother's when all her kids visited. And we could fit nine of us at my grandmother's. While the Carpenters are not dealing with grandchildren yet, they did get a head start on the numbers.

Mind you, love to see Brioche’s face the next day on the autopsy of a non human giant. If there is any justice Brioche ends up in the funny farm in the aftermath and Butters gets his job.

There are so many characters that it would be nice to see get their comeuppance.

[Snark Knight]

Would "fallen" be the right term? The fallen in DF are bound to coins and still have angelic power whereas Mac is mortal (I think there's a WOJ about it somewhere). He's clearly taken a different path compared to the denarians. Something more like the German movie "Wings of Desire" ie angel decides to become human.

There are many more Fallen than the 30 bound to the coins, it's just against the rules for them to do much of anything. Harry was surprised what the 30 could do through their mortal partner / slave when Michael explained the Denarians.

And the WOJ about Mac wasn't that he's mortal - the way he healed as soon as Mab took the bullet out of him in CD confirms that he's not. It was that he hasn't done anything a mortal couldn't. He's retired, not mortal.

[Mira]

They still have their own children at home. Matthew is 21-22; Alicia about 19; Hope 14 or 15; Amanda 13 1/2; Hank 12 1/2. I don't know how susceptible to that kind of mixed messaging Matthew and Alicia would be, but I doubt Michael and Charity would be want to send that kind of message to the younger ones. Michael was uncomfortable with Harry's relationship with Susan.

Additionally, they might have a full house already with all the kids back for Christmas. Especially if any of the older kids have gotten married. It'd make sense for Harry to be there if he hadn't found a new place to live yet, but not really for Murphy to not just come over in the morning. Before my grandmother passed, our family had gotten to the size that some of us stayed with my uncle because there just wasn't enough room for us all to stay at my grandmother's when all her kids visited. And we could fit nine of us at my grandmother's. While the Carpenters are not dealing with grandchildren yet, they did get a head start on the numbers.

If Murphy was coming over in the morning Harry wouldn't have been so depressed.  Also it is a large house, at least two of the kids have left home.. Even if all the bedrooms are full, there still is Charity's sewing room where they used to put Harry when he was injured, the floor, or a sofa. 

And the WOJ about Mac wasn't that he's mortal - the way he healed as soon as Mab took the bullet out of him in CD confirms that he's not. It was that he hasn't done anything a mortal couldn't. He's retired, not mortal.

As Sharkface told him, "you chose your path long ago."  Now that could mean a lot of things, I don't think watcher angels can just retire, but they can "sin" which would force their retirement, even if it wasn't a full Monty fall like Satan or the Denarians.

[Yuillegan]

Perhaps Mac has more than one identity. It could be for instance he is Ethniu's former lover MacKineely and father of Lugh. Perhaps he is also another person. For instance, if the Harry is a Nephilim theory is true - Mac could also be his father.

I guess we will find out

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think Mac “stumbled” rather than fell, but yes Mac has probably had multiple identities over the years, but I doubt he is Harry’s father. Malcolm is clearly Harry’s father, and the Dresden name would be German and not Irish and means ”people from the Forest by the River” which is interesting in itself, it may indicate Malcolm may have had non-human ancestry which is responsible for his height. He certainly doesn’t get that from Eb.

[Mira]

I think Mac “stumbled” rather than fell, but yes Mac has probably had multiple identities over the years, but I doubt he is Harry’s father. Malcolm is clearly Harry’s father, and the Dresden name would be German and not Irish and means ”people from the Forest by the River” which is interesting in itself, it may indicate Malcolm may have had non-human ancestry which is responsible for his height. He certainly doesn’t get that from Eb.

 Stumble as opposed to fall accurately describes what happened to some of the watchers I think. As one rabbi put it, their only sin was having sex with a mortal, not evil.  Could it be that Harry has had an effect on Mac as well?  I mean several times in the series Mac is described as "retired" or having removed himself from involvement, yet since he has known Harry, Mac has become increasingly involved.  Beginning with tossing Harry the keys to his Trans Am in Storm Front, to complete commitment in Battleground, placing his blood on the back of the Placard in affect once more swearing to watch and protect those who have taken shelter in his bar.

[Avernite]

Should note the Bible does have good watchers as well. At least in Daniel.

[Mira]

Should note the Bible does have good watchers as well. At least in Daniel.

All the watchers the way I understand it started out good, many had specific jobs on Earth looking
after mankind, but many liked the human ladies, that is where a lot of the trouble began.  Also the
impression I got reading the various sites, not just Wikipedia, that though they are considered fallen, they are not in the same boat as those that followed Lucifer.  That is why I quoted the rabbi who said their main sin was sex with the ladies, not evil in of itself.

[Bad Alias]

If Murphy was coming over in the morning Harry wouldn't have been so depressed.

He might be if some combination of Ebeneezer, the Alphas, Mac, Ivy, a bunch of innocent bystanders, Sanya, Butters, Mort, his warden friends, etc. died, and his brother was pretty close to the functional equivalent of dead, which he is. Your just assuming the only way he'll be depressed is if Murphy died. I disagree. Murphy's death is a sufficient, but not necessary, cause of Harry being depressed. Therefore, Murphy not being there isn't evidence that she isn't coming over or is dead. You're saying the fact that Murphy isn't there supports the statement that Michael and Charity wouldn't object to Harry's girlfriend sleeping over because the only reason she wouldn't be is because she's dead. You're saying that to support the proposition that if Murphy isn't there it's because she's dead.

You assert four premises and a conclusion.
Premise 1: Michael and Charity wouldn't object to Murphy spending the night sending the message that premarital relations are okay.
Premise 2: Murphy would be there if she were alive.
Premise 3: Harry would only be depressed if Murphy died.
Premise 4: Murphy isn't there.
Conclusion: Murphy's dead.

I reject premises 1, 2, and 3. Premise 3 is nonsense. Premise 2 has no support beyond wild conjecture. It would require Murphy not wanting to stay at her home, her not wanting to spend Christmas morning with her family, and Murphy wanting to be there for Harry and Maggie's first Christmas together all to be true. Premise 1 depends on the house being having extra room and Micheal and Charity to be okay with a boyfriend and girlfriend sleeping under the same roof when there isn't much of a reason for it. I agree with premise 4 because I reject premise 1, but we don't have definitive evidence that she isn't there.

Also it is a large house, at least two of the kids have left home.

I addressed that point.

Additionally, they might have a full house already with all the kids back for Christmas. Especially if any of the older kids have gotten married.

Even if all the bedrooms are full, there still is Charity's sewing room where they used to put Harry when he was injured, the floor, or a sofa.

You mean the room Maggie's likely to be sleeping in?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Perhaps Harry works out that Eb killed Malcolm to get him away from him and disappeared him into the foster system “for his own good” AND arranged for Justin to retrieve him, not realising Justin had his own agenda.

With Christmas and his last fading memories of his father, that would do it, and why Kringle’s gift worked when nothing else did, it brought back to Harry a piece of his father, just when he needed it.

As Eb said it’s always the person you don’t expect who betrays you. He might have known what he was talking about.

[Mira]

He might be if some combination of Ebeneezer, the Alphas, Mac, Ivy, a bunch of innocent bystanders, Sanya, Butters, Mort, his warden friends, etc. died, and his brother was pretty close to the functional equivalent of dead, which he is. Your just assuming the only way he'll be depressed is if Murphy died. I disagree. Murphy's death is a sufficient, but not necessary, cause of Harry being depressed. Therefore, Murphy not being there isn't evidence that she isn't coming over or is dead. You're saying the fact that Murphy isn't there supports the statement that Michael and Charity wouldn't object to Harry's girlfriend sleeping over because the only reason she wouldn't be is because she's dead. You're saying that to support the proposition that if Murphy isn't there it's because she's dead.

No, Harry is an adult, so is Murphy, Michael and Charity both know that.  She can spend the night and sleep somewhere else, as I said, it is a big house, she doesn't have to sleep with Harry if the implications of that bothered Charity and Michael morally...  But she isn't there, Molly, Kringle, hell even Mab are bending over backwards to be nice to him.  Not just because he is the hero, but because of what he has lost, his grief, perhaps he'd feel that bad over Thomas and Eb, but all the more reason for Murphy to be there.  So yeah, I can think of two reasons why she wouldn't be there with him on Christmas Eve, well, maybe three.  She was so pissed because she felt Harry was over protective of her she broke up with him.. The second reason is she is still in the hospital even more broken up than before.. But if that were true going to visit her the next day in the hospital might have been mentioned..  It wasn't.  Or she is dead.

I reject premises 1, 2, and 3. Premise 3 is nonsense. Premise 2 has no support beyond wild conjecture. It would require Murphy not wanting to stay at her home, her not wanting to spend Christmas morning with her family, and Murphy wanting to be there for Harry and Maggie's first Christmas together all to be true. Premise 1 depends on the house being having extra room and Micheal and Charity to be okay with a boyfriend and girlfriend sleeping under the same roof when there isn't much of a reason for it. I agree with premise 4 because I reject premise 1, but we don't have definitive evidence that she isn't there.

Murphy isn't so close with her family that she'd rather spend it with them than with her one true love.  In fact, if she was alive and spending Christmas with her family was so important, her true love and his kid would be with her, with them. Not at Michael's place.

    Also it is a large house, at least two of the kids have left home.

I addressed that point.

You tried and I blew it out of the water.

    Even if all the bedrooms are full, there still is Charity's sewing room where they used to put Harry when he was injured, the floor, or a sofa.

You mean the room Maggie's likely to be sleeping in?

Your point??  Is there a problem with Maggie sharing a room with Murphy for the night??

Perhaps Harry works out that Eb killed Malcolm to get him away from him and disappeared him into the foster system “for his own good” AND arranged for Justin to retrieve him, not realising Justin had his own agenda.

With Christmas and his last fading memories of his father, that would do it, and why Kringle’s gift worked when nothing else did, it brought back to Harry a piece of his father, just when he needed it.

As Eb said it’s always the person you don’t expect who betrays you. He might have known what he was talking about.

I don't buy that for an instant.. For starters Eb said that Malcolm had as good a soul as he'd ever seen.  I doubt he murder someone like that.  Also Malcolm had no magical powers what so ever, he was raising little Harry like any other non-talented kid, just like Eb claimed he liked.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Malcolm couldn’t protect Harry, it didn’t matter that Eb liked him, and he made sure he died in a peaceful way.

[Con]

I think the Angel's "Don't hurt yourself"is more than just courtesy of humans not being able to handle an Angels presence with Third Site, I think it's just literally they don't want a stranger to view them that intimately