We Now Know What/Who Mac Is

[Mira]

   In the third chapter of Battleground, Harry says that an Outsider recognized and said what Mac was.
On page222 [hardback] of Cold Days Sharkface says to Mac

"You have no place in this, watcher.Do you think this gesture has meaning? It is every bit as empty as you. You chose your road long ago.  Have the grace to lie down and die beside it.

 

Then I looked up the term and found this in Wikipedia;

Watcher (Aramaic עִיר ʿiyr, plural עִירִין ʿiyrin, [ʕiːr(iːn)]; Theodotian trans: ir; from the root of Heb. ʿer, "awake, watchful".[1] Greek: ἐγρήγοροι, transl.: egrḗgoroi; "Watchers", "those who are awake"; "guard", "watcher"[2]) is a term used in connection with biblical angels. Watcher occurs in both plural and singular forms in the Book of Daniel (4th–2nd century BC), where reference is made to their holiness. The apocryphal Books of Enoch (2nd–1st centuries BC) refer to both good and bad Watchers, with a primary focus on the rebellious ones.[3][4]

This fits Mac more specifically, this watcher;

Shamsiel, once a guardian of Eden as stated in the Zohar, served as one of the two chief aides to the archangel Uriel (the other aide being Hasdiel) when Uriel bore his standard into battle, and is the head of 365 legions of angels and also crowns prayers, accompanying them to the 5th heaven. In Jubilees, he is referred to as one of the Watchers. He is a fallen angel who teaches the signs of the sun.

Connected to Uriel, Mac is a fallen angel named Shamsiel.  Yes, he'd recognize the Placard when he saw it.  Yes, looking upon him with his wizard's sight would indeed blind or worse Harry.  Yes, Mac would know when Harry stopped using it.

Further is says about watchers;

The watchers are bound "in the valleys of the Earth" until Judgment Day (Jude verse 6 says, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.").

This fits Mac, he is bound to Earth but for the most part stays out of almost everything, but he might be hoping for redemption now, he committed himself with his blood on the Placard to sacrifice himself if necessary for those in his charge.

[Helga Ozark]

Would "fallen" be the right term? The fallen in DF are bound to coins and still have angelic power whereas Mac is mortal (I think there's a WOJ about it somewhere). He's clearly taken a different path compared to the denarians. Something more like the German movie "Wings of Desire" ie angel decides to become human.

[Mira]

Would "fallen" be the right term? The fallen in DF are bound to coins and still have angelic power whereas Mac is mortal (I think there's a WOJ about it somewhere). He's clearly taken a different path compared to the denarians. Something more like the German movie "Wings of Desire" ie angel decides to become human.

That could be, but the limited research I've done, and it is very limited, believe me, but I've seen that movie and it fits to a degree.  The character in the movie appeared to be a watcher angel and chose to become mortal over love.  However they can fall and not be evil like the denarians.  The impression I've gotten is Mac isn't mortal, that is what Sharkface means when he tells Mac, "you chose your road long ago."

[TheCuriousFan]

It was nice to see one of the more common theories basically confirmed.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Denarians are the hard core of the Fallen, Lucifer was glad they effectively operate on their own, it was too much like having an overenthusiastic IT Department whose constant interference in the IT Platform kept bringing the whole Organisation to a halt. He outsourced them.

On the opposite end of the spectrum is Mac, he obviously likes humans far more than was healthy for him and that probably was the reason for his fall, he felt more should be done to help humans until HR called him in and gave him an early retirement package as he sympathised far to much with the customers cutting them better details than he should. It was either that or accept mandatory redeployment as a nail.

[BrainFireBob]

Mac's passionate about fatherhood and children.

Per Enoch, the fallen Grigori sired the Nephilim- and the misbehavior of the Nephilim was responsible for the Flood

[Mira]

Mac's passionate about fatherhood and children.

Per Enoch, the fallen Grigori sired the Nephilim- and the misbehavior of the Nephilim was responsible for the Flood

Yeah, from reading the passages on Wikipedia, it sounds like the watchers gave into temptation.
This is another interpretation;

There are two basic versions of the fallen angels story: the fall of the Watchers, discussed here, and the fall of Lucifer. The Watchers were the “sons of God” who took human wives, and had children. Their children were known as the Nephilim.

Watchers in the Old Testament

    “When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them, the divine beings saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. The LORD said, ‘My breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years.’ It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth – when the divine beings cohabited with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.” – Genesis 6:1-4

This is the only account of the watchers in the Bible. Isaiah 14:12-15 talks of the fall of the “day-star, son of morning,” which implies that there was a revolt, and the “day-star” was cast into the abyss, but this may be a reference to early Canaanite or Phoenician myths. One other possible reference is Psalm 82.

    God standeth in the Congregation of God (El)
    In the midst of gods (elohim) He judgeth
    All the foundations of the earth are moved.
    I said: Ye are gods,
    And all of you sons of the Most High (Elyon)
    Nevertheles ye shall die like men,
    And fall like one of the princes (sarim)
    Psalm 82:1, 5-7

The parts of the Psalm I have left out are the parts that refer to wicked earthly rulers, but it is agreed upon by many scholars that this part of the Psalm refers to the fallen angels. While Genesis 6 tells that angels married women, it does not condemn this as a sin. Psalm 82 tells that the elohim sinned, but does not tell how (i.e. it does not mention that they married women).

Some rabbis have speculated that the angels’ sin was to reproduce. Certain passages in Jewish Midrash talk of how angels are immortal and do not need to reproduce. Since humans are not, they must reproduce in order to achieve immortality in their descendents.

Watchers in Jewish Midrash

This is a passage from Jewish midrash in which Hannah is praying for a child at Shiloh:

    “Lord of the Universe! The celestials never die, and they do not reproduce their kind. Terrestrial beings die, but they are fruitful and multiply. Therefore I pray: Either make me immortal, or give me a son!”

So falling in love and either having or wanting a child by a mortal woman would have condemned Mac it appears.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Interesting this segues via The Book of Invasions in Irish from Ireland being settled by various groups descended from the sons of Noah, to the rise of Tuatha de Dan and the Fomorians.

This would allow for Mac to be a Grigori, and also husband of Ethnui and father of Lugh who slew Balor.

Knowing Jim he has been giggling away madly about Mac’s identity because he has multiple identities, no one has guessed right about all of it

[Mira]

Interesting this segues via The Book of Invasions in Irish from Ireland being settled by various groups descended from the sons of Noah, to the rise of Tuatha de Dan and the Fomorians.

This would allow for Mac to be a Grigori, and also husband of Ethnui and father of Lugh who slew Balor.

Knowing Jim he has been giggling away madly about Mac’s identity because he has multiple identities, no one has guessed right about all of it

A Grigori is a watcher angel who mated with humans, giants resulted. Perhaps the father of Ethnui?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Ethnui’s father was Balor, the prophecy was that her son would kill him, so he made sure she practiced safe sex by locking her alone in a tower for thousands of years until some handsome devil of a Tuatha called MacKineally scaled both the tower and the lady, and begat her son Lugh.

Harry doesn’t mention Ethnui’s name, merely a Titan leading an army of Fomor, if Mac is also MacKineally, it could be especially awkward if Ethnui attacks the pub.

[Mira]

Ethnui’s father was Balor, the prophecy was that her son would kill him, so he made sure she practiced safe sex by locking her alone in a tower for thousands of years until some handsome devil of a Tuatha called MacKineally scaled both the tower and the lady, and begat her son Lugh.

Harry doesn’t mention Ethnui’s name, merely a Titan leading an army of Fomor, if Mac is also MacKineally, it could be especially awkward if Ethnui attacks the pub.

Killing a former lover?  What is so unusual about that?   But honestly, since Mac seemed to be clued in on a whole lot of things, most likely he already knows who the Titan is.

[Bad Alias]

Especially if he has a broad "divine intellectus" and thought about it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

He couldn’t be more in it if he tried,

I suspect there are quite a few things about his past, Mac deliberately refrains from thinking about, like Harry does  Shagnasty. It does make me wonder how much Harry has deduced about Mac.

We keep getting reminded of Lara’s third favour from Mab, what if for Harry to survive to have the strength to take down Ethnui and survive he needs his True Love? Lara might use that last favour for Mab to heal Murphy, no Faustian pact, but Murphy once again at her physical peak and Harry able to retrieve Thomas. It explains the Motorbike scene and the Rocket Launcher scheme, a healed Murphy.

[Mira]

He couldn’t be more in it if he tried,

I suspect there are quite a few things about his past, Mac deliberately refrains from thinking about, like Harry does  Shagnasty. It does make me wonder how much Harry has deduced about Mac.

We keep getting reminded of Lara’s third favour from Mab, what if for Harry to survive to have the strength to take down Ethnui and survive he needs his True Love? Lara might use that last favour for Mab to heal Murphy, no Faustian pact, but Murphy once again at her physical peak and Harry able to retrieve Thomas. It explains the Motorbike scene and the Rocket Launcher scheme, a healed Murphy.

That could work, but it doesn't account for the tears at Christmas.  Yeah, I know Harry has a guilt complex, but this strikes me as mourning.  Thomas could either be dead or because he was really guilty of what he is accused of, must remain on Demonreach.  That could account for some of it, but where is his true love?  I don't buy that Michael and Charity are so narrow minded that Murphy wouldn't be welcome as an over night guest on Christmas Eve give how her and Harry feel about one another.  Nor do I buy that Murphy would rather be with her relatives than her true love, or some twisted idea that because of little Maggie she stayed at home.  I think it is significant that the scene where Harry leaves her behind at Mac's place to her objections is a replay of what he wanted her to do in Peace Talks, she objected that time as well.  I like Harry's comment about her being an adult, because her reaction was a bit childish..  I still think she is going to bail Mac's place, and will be killed.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Obviously Murphy is immediately killed by the giant she just killed with the rocket launcher falling on her. Her last words “totally worth it”.

You don’t think Jim wouldn’t miraculously heal Murphy only to immediately kill her off? That way Jim gets to annoy both the Murphyphiles AND the Murphyphobes in the space of a couple of chapters, AND totally put Harry through the wringer.