Now THAT's what I call a Sample Chapter!

[SpacedCowboy]

One more thing, the look between Lara and Molly.. What is Molly so pissed about?  What does she know, is it Lara calling in the favors owed by the Winter Court?  Does she know that Lara might be behind what happened to Thomas in the first place?

Maybe she knows (and doesn't like) whatever the first favour was.

Small detail: We know that Morgan has used his sight in Macs Bar before, sweeping all around, and saw Mac, even if briefly...

“Morgan didn’t let his gaze linger too long near Mac or myself, and then he nodded to himself, and called out, 'Clear.'"

Presumably you'd have to stare at Mac to hurt yourself...

[Mira]

  Okay, in the chapter Harry said that the Outsiders recognized Mac.  I found it in Cold Days, Sharkface called Mac "Watcher." Looking it up, it gets complicated angels and fallen angels, but I found this on Wikipedia and it makes sense that this is who Mac really is.

Shamsiel, once a guardian of Eden as stated in the Zohar, served as one of the two chief aides to the archangel Uriel (the other aide being Hasdiel) when Uriel bore his standard into battle, and is the head of 365 legions of angels and also crowns prayers, accompanying them to the 5th heaven. In Jubilees, he is referred to as one of the Watchers. He is a fallen angel who teaches the signs of the sun.

What caught my eye is the connection to Uriel.  Also if Mac is a fallen angel, it would explain that would explain a lot about him.

Maybe she knows (and doesn't like) whatever the first favour was.

Small detail: We know that Morgan has used his sight in Macs Bar before, sweeping all around, and saw Mac, even if briefly...

"“Morgan didn’t let his gaze linger too long near Mac or myself, and then he nodded to himself, and called out, “Clear.”

Presumably you'd have to stare at Mac to hurt yourself...

Or Morgan knew better than to look at either Harry or Mac, he gazed near not at either one of them.

[Arjan]

Of course Molly does not like Lara. The white court vampires and the woman who can not have sex at all.

[bigdangmoose]

Of course Molly does not like Lara. The white court vampires and the woman who can not have sex at all.

Perhaps word of the glamour got to Molls

[BrainFireBob]

Still tormenting us about Mac, still!

Intellectus (of more than just Demonreach or about the written word) is something we have only seen in the Mothers and Archangels. It does explain why Mac doesn’t need to speak, he already knows.

Exactly how much research has Harry done on the objects, when and how? He suddenly has all this knowledge, when ignorance has been his most enduring feature. So the Placard is a super threshold, which puts Macanally’s on par with the Carpenters supernaturally, which is  powered by multiple Angels. Does this mean the bar can now withstand the eye of Balor? Is it just the bar, if Mac owns the entire building is that covered as well? That means they still have to defend against purely physical force, which is where Murphy comes in I suppose.

It’s original purpose on the crucifiction would have been to protect Christ on the cross from supernatural intervention, but from who? Christ owned the Cross?

Is that as Harry has the Placard this is how he gets the Castle?it can only be used by someone who owns the building it is part of, so to create the perfect supernatural bomb shelter Harry has to own it. Harry becomes Marcone’s Landlord? Will Harry make Marcon shoevel the paths in Winter, even though as Winter Knight he doesn’t need them shovelled?

Would have been wiser for Harry to use it on Demonreach- he can call on the island's defenses personally.

As to owning the Cross- it was a Jewish cross raised on Jewish land; as King yeah, it'd be his property.

Could have been an Outer Gates attack, if Butcher wants to fudge his 2000 year cycle.

As to the objects: Demonreach seems to have diagnostic capabilities, possibly related to its ability to take on and hold prisoners. Could be that the "armory" is another stasis crystal, just one they sit in passively, allowing Demonreach to "read" them as they enter.

EDIT: I figured Molly is still in mad-love with Harry, and so she's jealous of Lara- either from the illusion, or Harry giving her the elevator eyes.

Murphy is in great danger. She's between Lara and vengeance, and Molly and what she wants- if any mortal is allowed a pass with the Winter Lady's mantle, it's her "husband".

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Demonreach has protection already equivalent to the Placard, I think it is defence but also a trap. I surmised on another thread what would happen should Harry push Ethnui past the the Carpenters threshold. The word bug zapper was used. We know now what the Placard really says ”Keep Out”.

If Harry were to blow Ethnui into the bar, it would massively weaken and disorientate her, making it much easier to harry her to the shoreline and a binding, or for a lesser power to be vanquished. Could it be so powerful Mac’s Bar is a place where you can now kill immortals? Could he kill her there especially with the Athame? Is this why Mac is so nervous about it?

I think that if you kill the person in the circuit you also kill the protection it affords. Murphy has her hands full keeping Mac alive.

[Snark Knight]

Is that as Harry has the Placard this is how he gets the Castle?it can only be used by someone who owns the building it is part of, so to create the perfect supernatural bomb shelter Harry has to own it.

And Mouse gains power from the threshold he protects. How bat-cacky insanely OP would he become guarding THAT?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Because of course Harry would live there with Maggie if it became as safe as the Carpenters or Demonreach from supernatural attack.

Yes I had that thought about Mouse, guarding that threshold a Ferrovax wouldn’t want to take on Mouse.

I wonder if the second loophole is that the person in the circuit for the Placard has to stay on the premises?

[The_Sibelis]

So, I think this makes it clear that Mac is (or was) one of the angelic watchers talked about in the Book of Enoch. Retired? Fallen? Did he have a Nephilim child? More to be told, I’m sure.

I wonder how Dresden figured out the power of the placard. Seems pretty specific. And interesting. And small scale thinking if he gave it to Mac. He could have given it to Marcone and hustled many more people into the BFS castle.

Marcone coulda put it up on chicago itself as it's Baron, he owns alot of it to begin with even if he doesn't technically control it... It'd be a bit of symantecs, but he's recognized as Chicago's leader in the accords so idk..

[TheCuriousFan]

Marcone coulda put it up on chicago itself as it's Baron, he owns alot of it to begin with even if he doesn't technically control it... It'd be a bit of symantecs, but he's recognized as Chicago's leader in the accords so idk..

He's not recognised as the owner by the legal government so it wouldn't work.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Before she became the Winter Lady, Molly went on a mission save Thomas because Lara put him in a dangerous situation.  (She couldn't have known that Thomas got himself out of trouble.)  Molly knows Lara has used Thomas in risky ways before and wonders if she has done so again.  Plus, I totally buy into the idea that she still has the hots for Harry and knows that Lara will eventually try use her vampire skills to control Harry.  Finally, there's the sex vampire queen vs. the enforced virgin queen angle.  Molly has a lot of reasons to trust or not like Lara Raith.

[The_Sibelis]

He's not recognised as the owner by the legal government so it wouldn't work.

then you'd think he wouldn't be recognized by the accords as such, as they regard mortal hierchy. Hence gruff respecting Murphy's position as peace keeper.

[vultur]

The only other time we saw something shutdown Harry's sight for his own benefit was the angel guard to the "police station" in GS.

Yeah, this plus the call-back to him being called "Watcher" in CD plus his familiarity with the Placard... really strongly suggests that he is in fact one of the Grigorim/Watchers.

then you'd think he wouldn't be recognized by the accords as such, as they regard mortal hierchy. Hence gruff respecting Murphy's position as peace keeper.

I think that was more respecting Murphy's courage than anything legal. The Gruffs have a strong sense of honor, at least the older ones.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Mac has doubtless been several things in his existence and may yet due to Harry’s actions be yet another, we still don’t know enough, and clearly it is going to come to a head later in the book when the Placard is put to the test.

[Helga Ozark]

Regarding Molly:
What we know so far from PT
Lara has had a big bite to eat
Carlos has been injured again messing with "the wrong monster" in the line of duty "as it turned out".
and now from BG: Molly is really pissed at Lara
My working hypothesis is that Lara fed on Carlos and now Molly is pissed.

The lose end still hanging in my hypothesis is how is it in the line of duty??