Jury Duty and the Peace Talks

[Yuillegan]

After re-reading Jury Duty, it occurs to me that one of the stronger candidates for using the FBI to hound Dresden is the White Court.

Now, that would suggest it is Lara - but not necessarily. There has been division in every major supernatural organisation.

But coupled with the fact that the White Court was clearly interfering/testing with the Fomor during Bombshells (and the Svartalves) and also during Even Hand, I think it suggests that more is going on behind the scenes.

Perhaps the FBI aren't merely watching Justine but actually protecting her.

Which all begs the question: is Eb right about the White Court? And is Thomas complicit?

Knowing the Thomas story lines he probably is but there is some noble but misguided or foolish attempt to protect those he loves. But it will look bad.

But it would not at all surprise me if Eb was right about the White Court and Harry just hadn't realised how much they are playing him and everyone else.

Thoughts?

[vultur]

I think... yes and no.

Lara is playing her own game, sure... but I think that while she's personally evil her political motivations basically lead her to be more or less on the same side as Harry as things move toward the BAT.

IE Lara is out to increase her power base. But the White Court works through mortals & is big on cat's paws. If the Fomor/Ethniu or the Outsiders or somebody like that wrecks mortal civilization that's bad for the White Court and therefore bad for Lara's personal power as its effective ruler.

Lara needs mortal tech and infrastructure to be a major player, at least unless she goes Lord Raith's route of getting a super-powerful Outsider sponsor. The "top end" of the White Court's own supernatural powers doesn't go all that high.

Terrifying as Lara is on a human scale, TC shows there's an absolutely huge gap between where she is and where beings like Eb, Listens-to-Wind, and naagloshii are. And it seems like more of the super-powerful beings are becoming active as things move toward the BAT.

So while the White Court is absolutely doing stuff that Harry doesn't know about, and there might be some faction working against Lara (Cowl/the Circle might still have contacts in the White Court), I think the "mainstream" WC ruled by Lara is going to be basically on the side of civilization.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Lara is also aware that when the masquerade drops, there will be mortals queuing up to be ‘eaten’ by Lara and her kin, her brand of evil will flourish whilst others will wither, and yes the ‘bigger’ monsters will make her seem small and relatively harmless in comparison. She just needs to tidy up those of the White Court like Madrigal and Madeleine who lack judgement and control, and she has been doing this.

If the White Court only ‘eats’ those who are competent and give their consent, and Lara were to create a reality TV show “Real Vampires of Chicago” with her and her sisters, it will be a ratings success and an inexhaustible food supply.

The White Council  published Dracula to destroy the Black Court, the White Court did something probably more evil, they were responsible for the Twilight Saga to soften the mortal world up for the masquerade dropping.

The rest of the Accorded Nations would help protect the White Court from attack

[vultur]

Lara is also aware that when the masquerade drops, there will be mortals queuing up to be ‘eaten’ by Lara and her kin, her brand of evil will flourish whilst others will wither, and yes the ‘bigger’ monsters will make her seem small and relatively harmless in comparison. She just needs to tidy up those of the White Court like Madrigal and Madeleine who lack judgement and control, and she has been doing this.

If the White Court only ‘eats’ those who are competent and give their consent, and Lara were to create a reality TV show “Real Vampires of Chicago” with her and her sisters, it will be a ratings success and an inexhaustible food supply.

Yeah. I can totally see the Raiths advertising, and being extremely successful. It would be a blow to the remains of Skavis and Malvora too, they'd find it a *lot* harder to find people willing to be fed on - especially Skavis, nobody likes despair.

[Yuillegan]

Lara is also aware that when the masquerade drops, there will be mortals queuing up to be ‘eaten’ by Lara and her kin, her brand of evil will flourish whilst others will wither, and yes the ‘bigger’ monsters will make her seem small and relatively harmless in comparison. She just needs to tidy up those of the White Court like Madrigal and Madeleine who lack judgement and control, and she has been doing this.

If the White Court only ‘eats’ those who are competent and give their consent, and Lara were to create a reality TV show “Real Vampires of Chicago” with her and her sisters, it will be a ratings success and an inexhaustible food supply.

The White Council  published Dracula to destroy the Black Court, the White Court did something probably more evil, they were responsible for the Twilight Saga to soften the mortal world up for the masquerade dropping.

The rest of the Accorded Nations would help protect the White Court from attack

It was actually the White Court who published Dracula. It wouldn't surprise me though if they had also helped publish Twilight(although I agree that it totally more evil...damn Stephanie Meyer for trying to ruin vampires). FY I what the White Council helped publish was the Necronomicon in order to dilute the power of the rituals within.

I agree Lara (and by extension the White Court) is on the side of civilisation. Doesn't mean she isn't trying to use the situation of an impending "small a" apocalypse to further her own power and influence. And it doesn't meant that even if she isn't involved that there aren't traitors within. Like Arianna to the Red King.

I mean, I see your point about heavy-weights. But maybe what Lara and the White Court are realising is that their biggest weapon is being the Devil you know. Using humanity to take out the White Court's foes, straight out of their playbook. And then use humanity to kill itself too. Clearly they have learned to control the system quite well. As far as I know, no supernatural nation has a nuclear bomb. I wouldn't be surprise if Lara has access to that. And few would even think of it. I think that the White Court has seen the example of humanity as realised that having the most powerful warriors isn't what makes you strong, it's having the biggest advantage over your enemies. Information, wealth, super-weapons etc. We don't use swords anymore for a reason. Warfare has changed and perhaps the White Court has changed with it, unlike just about every other supernatural nation.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Lara, unlike her father sees use in humans above and beyond food. She started hiring competent rather than pretty people, Riley a case in point and is far less prejudiced than most of her Court towards humans. She is much more involved with human society, she would be quite happy for the White Court to become slightly less evil and slightly more socially responsible 1 percenters, openly utilising their wealth and power.

[ClintACK]

Lara, unlike her father sees use in humans above and beyond food. She started hiring competent rather than pretty people, Riley a case in point and is far less prejudiced than most of her Court towards humans.

Yes. But when a Naagloshi attacks Chateau Raith, the injured competent-not-pretty mercenaries don't get rushed to the hospital, they get rushed to her sisters' rooms to be used as disposable health potions.

I suppose she's "less evil" than the Red Court, the fomor, her father, and Jeffery Epstein (at least Lara's victims are over the age of consent), but that's a pretty low bar.

[vultur]

Oh Lara's absolutely evil. She doesn't actually value human life at all, for example.

But as the conflict moves toward the BAT (vs individual supernatural crimes in the first books) her self-interest basically aligns with the 'good guys' at least to the degree of preserving civilization.

If Lara tries to make the WC "less evil" it would only be to the degree necessary for them to be accepted in a world where the supernatural is known... I would say 'less blatantly evil' or 'more controlled' instead.

[Mira]

Oh Lara's absolutely evil. She doesn't actually value human life at all, for example.

But as the conflict moves toward the BAT (vs individual supernatural crimes in the first books) her self-interest basically aligns with the 'good guys' at least to the degree of preserving civilization.

If Lara tries to make the WC "less evil" it would only be to the degree necessary for them to be accepted in a world where the supernatural is known... I would say 'less blatantly evil' or 'more controlled' instead.

I pretty much agree with that she is a lot like her father.

[Snark Knight]

Oh Lara's absolutely evil. She doesn't actually value human life at all, for example.

I recall a WOJ that explains her character pretty thoroughly. She occasionally looks at some of the protagonists and considers being not evil for a while, then thinks "Ugh, who has time for that?".

Though it will be interesting to see whether the spot at the end of PT where she contemplates that Harry might be motivated by genuine altruism and regards him as an incomprehensible puzzle leads to any actual character development.

[Mira]

I recall a WOJ that explains her character pretty thoroughly. She occasionally looks at some of the protagonists and considers being not evil for a while, then thinks "Ugh, who has time for that?".

Though it will be interesting to see whether the spot at the end of PT where she contemplates that Harry might be motivated by genuine altruism and regards him as an incomprehensible puzzle leads to any actual character development.

Or she thinks he is a total fool and continues to ask what's in it for her?

[Snark Knight]

After re-reading Jury Duty, it occurs to me that one of the stronger candidates for using the FBI to hound Dresden is the White Court.
Now, that would suggest it is Lara - but not necessarily. There has been division in every major supernatural organisation.

The murder victim in Jury Duty was a Malvora, right? And Lara had to push for a conviction to satisfy the White Throne's duty to a subordinate house, but she deliberately half-assed it by putting a not-very-competent youth on it. Maybe she's still salty about Malvora's role in the coup attempt, so she's pulling "I tried, but the wizard foiled it"?

Could be Malvora is pulling some strings of their own in law enforcement to pay Harry back for exonerating their guy's killer, and mess with Thomas and Justine to put one over on Lara in return?

[Bad Alias]

Papa Raith seemed evil to me. He enjoyed the suffering of others in and of itself.

Lara seems amoral. She eats people, yeah, but it's not like she has a choice other than her own death. If an predator eats someone, I don't blame it.

[Arjan]

Papa Raith seemed evil to me. He enjoyed the suffering of others in and of itself.

Lara seems amoral. She eats people, yeah, but it's not like she has a choice other than her own death. If an predator eats someone, I don't blame it.

The questions are:

“Does she know the difference between good and evil?“
She does but she does not have the time for it. That is a weak excuse.

And the next question is not “Can she be good?” Because that is a higher bar than necessary. A sufficient question is “Can she be less evil”
And the answer is yes, she can.

[Mira]

“Does she know the difference between good and evil?“

I think she does know the difference between good and evil, the only problem is her point of view
is very different.  She will on occasion feed upon her victims until death, we call it murder, evil, however she sees it no different than a lion killing and eating it's prey, good.  She does try to keep that in check because she understand the problems politically etc it brings her. 

She does but she does not have the time for it. That is a weak excuse.

She has the time for it when it is to her advantage as when she has allied with Harry for the greater good, which is also to her advantage.

And the next question is not “Can she be good?” Because that is a higher bar than necessary. A sufficient question is “Can she be less evil”
And the answer is yes, she can.

The answer is no, in my opinion because her view point is so different from our own.