I am 99% sure that Cowl is Dresden from the future

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Of course becoming a Black Court vampire would allow Murphy to get over her current physical limitations, everyone plumps for Valkyrie or Einenjaren, but why not?

[Mira]

Of course becoming a Black Court vampire would allow Murphy to get over her current physical limitations, everyone plumps for Valkyrie or Einenjaren, but why not?

  Yeah, and the names are even close, Murphy/Mavra.. Well, close enough.   So if she is killed, she can become the "Queen of the Dead."

[The_Sibelis]

@pretty much everyone, enough with the snark for theories you don't understand. Im sitting here trying to explain, stop, and listen please and thank you.
Here now, it's this simple, in DB, future Harry had already seen that the dark hallow goes down, ergo it being such a large event conservation of history is in effect, ergo when he says in answer to Harry saying nobody needs to take it,"I just don't see that happening" he's being quite literal. In his timeline someone pulled it off so to him it HAS to happen, what harry did with a knife to his throat was another free will choice, he stopped(actually just delayed but whatever) the darkhallow that was destined to happen that night. It's all actually very explainable. I can't pull your questions out of thin air so I don't know what confounds you so until you say it in type bub.
And here's my version of snark for ya, Mavra is Morgana, she's trying to use the dark hallow to reverse her undeath because it's stopping her from being Nemesis incarnate 🤓 make of that one what you will.

[morriswalters]

Since this is a book of course anything is possible. However Cowl shows up multiple times and attempts to kill Harry after the initial contact in Dead Beat. Specifically in White Knight.  Once when Harry is watching Grey Cloak with LC and a second time in the Raith Deeps.  So what is the point of the two attacks? Either Cowl can't kill Harry because the universe is deterministic and he can't change it, or he risks paradox if he succeeds.  This is one objection. The second objection is to the purpose within the greater story?

In Proven Guilty, assuming the text is to be believed, the whole purpose of the events of the books served to stop a plot to kill Harry by the Circle. Cowl is a member of the Circle. Why that plot?

[The_Sibelis]

Since this is a book of course anything is possible. However Cowl shows up multiple times and attempts to kill Harry after the initial contact in Dead Beat. Specifically in White Knight.  Once when Harry is watching Grey Cloak with LC and a second time in the Raith Deeps.  So what is the point of the two attacks? Either Cowl can't kill Harry because the universe is deterministic and he can't change it, or he risks paradox if he succeeds.  This is one objection. The second objection is to the purpose within the greater story?

In Proven Guilty, assuming the text is to be believed, the whole purpose of the events of the books served to stop a plot to kill Harry by the Circle. Cowl is a member of the Circle. Why that plot?

the only one to mention the circle is cowl yes? We are making the assumption that the circle is the same as the black council because that's the assumption Harry has made, we don't know how, if at all, the two are connected. Although I do consider, if Harry's IS traveling through time, then it would make sense if another harry is doing the same with opposite intentions. Idk that he's actually trying to actively kill him though again, every time he shows up he's changing something like, if he hadn't been in the deeps/ messing with outsiders would Lash have sacrificed herself into Bonnie? Lash clearly makes a choice there, a choice cowl had a hand in forcing.
The purpose in story, would be changing the timeline, why that's needed depends. I favor him hopping through time to get back to his own reality on jump at at time, but it could well be he has to do so to fix the realities where MM Harry drew the other Harry's from, maybe a mission assigned by Uriel?

[Mira]

@pretty much everyone, enough with the snark for theories you don't understand. Im sitting here trying to explain, stop, and listen please and thank you.
Here now, it's this simple, in DB, future Harry had already seen that the dark hallow goes down, ergo it being such a large event conservation of history is in effect, ergo when he says in answer to Harry saying nobody needs to take it,"I just don't see that happening" he's being quite literal. In his timeline someone pulled it off so to him it HAS to happen, what harry did with a knife to his throat was another free will choice, he stopped(actually just delayed but whatever) the darkhallow that was destined to happen that night. It's all actually very explainable. I can't pull your questions out of thin air so I don't know what confounds you so until you say it in type bub.
And here's my version of snark for ya, Mavra is Morgana, she's trying to use the dark hallow to reverse her undeath because it's stopping her from being Nemesis incarnate 🤓 make of that one what you will.

They are not snark theories as morriswalters tried to explain to you, there is abundant evidence that Cowl is not Harry.  So by your own logic, Mavra may well be the future Murphy come back, makes as much sense. Maybe he forgot the events or the power he had at the time so he came back as Cowl to confront himself to make choices?  He didn't know his past self would stop him?  Do you honestly think Cowl, future Harry as you contend, or not, would be that sloppy before breaking the laws of time by confronting himself multiple times?

You seem to be basing all of this on Harry saying "how would he know if he were mad?" That made him shiver, but that doesn't make him Cowl.  You gave us a lot of what ifs, shoulda couldas, forced choices, that if I remember correctly, while they were indeed choices on Harry's part, they were hardly forced by anything Cowl did.  It's a nice theory you have, but you haven't shown any evidence in the text or WOJ to back up your theory... That is a bit of a problem.

In closing, you are also leaving out the most important choice Harry ever made, and Cowl wasn't any where around when he made it..  Cutting class to be home with Elaine, which led to his confrontation with HWB and eventually killing Justin...

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Perhaps future Harry is also Eb, travelling back in time to be his own grandpa. Don’t let the foot plus difference in height fool you. They both named their daughter Maggie.

[Mira]

Perhaps future Harry is also Eb, travelling back in time to be his own grandpa. Don’t let the foot plus difference in height fool you. They both named their daughter Maggie.

No, that was Susan...

[The_Sibelis]

Yea those aren't theories, they're snark pure and simple, but ya know what? Everyone who said Harry's lab couldn't survive is eating crow right about now, so we'll see, won't we?
Morris didn't try to explain anything, he was just nice and courteous and explained his quandaries so that I could make a rebuttal.
I'm basing none of it on Harry saying that, perhaps you have me confused with someone else? I actually pointed out Nic also said this. He hasn't been sloppy, he's avoided the pitfall of actually changing anything directly.
No txt evidence? I directly pointed out the car changing in front of Bock's, these are not errors, they would not leave them through multiple printings or ignore them when the betas point them out if so, we know the betas have pointed things out that were directly ignored. That's what, Woj light iirc lmao?
👀The timeline diverges mainly from GP, why would he be anywhere near harry coming home early? Y'all literally talking nonsense, that's snark. Might knock it off as I already said /please/. If you don't like a theory, your not required to argue against it at all. And if you are going to, keep it within the bounds of the rules of the board... 

[The_Sibelis]

I mean let's see, I could also point out Kumori reviving the thug directly lead to Harry surviving because it caught Marcones interest, a moment we directly know is an overturning of fate, which is in book evidence for the very thing I'm theorizing, they're changing things.

[The_Sibelis]

IIRC he just got a general "taller than Kumori" statement.The other problem with Cowl being Harry is that, as you pointed out, his fine control is way better than Harry's. He'd have to be Harry from decades if not centuries in the future.

I remember now from a FB group question, Cowl in the Deeps is Harry with Lasciel. they wanted to know what form harry would take with her coin. From the stark contrast in Nic and Harry's mirroring I predict Lasciel would manifest similar to Anduriel, except aflame. That flaming bird in the deeps, I think that was Lasciel. So his control would indeed have been supplemented.

*I shoulda went with Gary as my new avatar name 🤦‍♂️ dang missed opportunity that was lol

[morriswalters]

the only one to mention the circle is cowl yes? We are making the assumption that the circle is the same as the black council because that's the assumption Harry has made, we don't know how, if at all, the two are connected. Although I do consider, if Harry's IS traveling through time, then it would make sense if another harry is doing the same with opposite intentions. Idk that he's actually trying to actively kill him though again, every time he shows up he's changing something like, if he hadn't been in the deeps/ messing with outsiders would Lash have sacrificed herself into Bonnie? Lash clearly makes a choice there, a choice cowl had a hand in forcing.
The purpose in story, would be changing the timeline, why that's needed depends. I favor him hopping through time to get back to his own reality on jump at at time, but it could well be he has to do so to fix the realities where MM Harry drew the other Harry's from, maybe a mission assigned by Uriel?

Given what Jim has told us about time travel consider that his model attempts to get rid of the largest problem with time travel stories. They break cause and effect.  The idea is that if you change the past you split the time line.

This implies that if Harry goes back in time and changes things that he branches time and creates another him when he does it.  So in a timeline where Susan doesn't die for instance, there is another Harry there.  Supposedly this is the premise of Mirror Mirror. Vadderung lays this out in Cold Days.

“A twinned universe,” Vadderung said. “A new parallel reality, identical except for that event. One in which you never existed, and one in which you failed to kill your grandfather.” I pursed my lips. “That . . . doesn’t really end well for me in either case.” “An excellent reason not to meddle in the natural course of time, wouldn’t you say? Meddling with time is an irrationally, outrageously, catastrophically dangerous and costly business. I encourage you to avoid it at all costs.”

Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 215). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

This idea breaks a lot of theories around Harry coming back from the future to do anything.  So if Harry was destined to die during the first use of LC, then no universe would exist after that point that had Harry in it.  To create a timeline where Harry exists after that point, someone other than Harry would have to change the event. So if by Harry's death the Outsiders manage to break in through the gates, then someone from that timeline could jump to Harry's past and fix LC, but the universe they came from wouldn't change. But a new time line would spawn where Harry doesn't die.

[The_Sibelis]

Given what Jim has told us about time travel consider that his model attempts to get rid of the largest problem with time travel stories. They break cause and effect.  The idea is that if you change the past you split the time line.

This implies that if Harry goes back in time and changes things that he branches time and creates another him when he does it.  So in a timeline where Susan doesn't die for instance, there is another Harry there.  Supposedly this is the premise of Mirror Mirror. Vadderung lays this out in Cold Days.
This idea breaks a lot of theories around Harry coming back from the future to do anything.  So if Harry was destined to die during the first use of LC, then no universe would exist after that point that had Harry in it.  To create a timeline where Harry exists after that point, someone other than Harry would have to change the event. So if by Harry's death the Outsiders manage to break in through the gates, then someone from that timeline could jump to Harry's past and fix LC, but the universe they came from wouldn't change. But a new time line would spawn where Harry doesn't die.

this is very true but to point out two things, if the timeline we are reading has already been changed, then it's not the original and Harry was only fated to die after the timeline had already been played with, so there's already timelines where he would continue to exist. And the thing with Marcones thug, Kumori does that, and within a cpl hours Cowl moves to confront Harry. I think his absence is significant. If harry died in that Alley he would have been eaten by the ghoul. There wouldn't even be anything to revive via necromancy. I think she had to alter Harry's fate in order for cowl to appear, because he DID die and in such a way he couldn't have come back and ergo couldn't have traveled back in time. There's two of them.
Funny you mention LC, because I think that build up that would have killed Harry? Was future Harry using future unchanged LC to travel backwards to when it was current LC, it was the Time Travel device, or perhaps foci is the better term. So Harry shouldnt have died there anyway.. on the other hand, if the car hadn't hit him and Molly hadn't called, it's likely he would have given into Lash to use LC, picking up the coin for the first time as a consequence.

[morriswalters]

And herein lies the problem with time travel.  Anything is possible and what is the point of theorizing? Could it be true in the book. Yes.  Time travel solves all problems.

Little Chicago isn't a time travel device.    It's big brother may be the outer gates.  Jim uses the same imagery in describing Marcone's kidnapping with Mab watching and Harry's use of LC in the scene where Cowl attacks him through LC.  And by the way it is in that scene in White Knight that the title the Circle is used by Vittorio Malvora when talking to Madrigal.  Later in Cold Days Harry realizes that his view is too narrow.

[The_Sibelis]

And herein lies the problem with time travel.  Anything is possible and what is the point of theorizing? Could it be true in the book. Yes.  Time travel solves all problems.

Little Chicago isn't a time travel device.    It's big brother may be the outer gates.  Jim uses the same imagery in describing Marcone's kidnapping with Mab watching and Harry's use of LC in the scene where Cowl attacks him through LC.  And by the way it is in that scene in White Knight that the title the Circle is used by Vittorio Malvora when talking to Madrigal.  Later in Cold Days Harry realizes that his view is too narrow.

it's not solving all the problems, they're all just wrapped up in a neat bow for time travel to solve. The idea the outer gates has Anything to do with LC is just as much of a jump, if not more so, than it's a TT device. Being used to thaumaturgically connect to the past is a sound theory. Where as the OG connects to LC because Mab knows how to recreate a scene in ice and snow? I don't see the connection... And Mab using a scrying eye(something seen time and again in the DF, shadow man does the same thing, he's not connected to LC) to watch Marcone and recreating it doesn't connect with anything actually done at the outer gates. Heck if anything it's a Molly is Mab theory connection, she learned the gist of how to recreate a city from her old master lol. And Vittorio is the one working FOR cowl, so that still doesn't connect any other element at large to the circle, just cowl, which was my point.
It's funny to me, how some things are accepted without proof or correlation like that but if it's not popular opinion it's wrong. Like these three walkers.. I'll eat my shoe if they aren't all he who walks before, anyone wanna take that bet lol?