If Not Mab, Could Nic Be Behind What Thomas Did?

[Mira]

You say that Justine doesn't have true love protection, the baby can feed off of Justine, therefore Justine doesn't have true love protection. Both of your premises are assumptions and you're conclusion is one of your premises.

Page 2 Peace Talks

"The usual, mostly. Except that the baby's Hunger will draw life energy from Justine.  She's going to be fed upon continuously for the next seven and a half months."

True love's protection burns the Hunger demon, Thomas says it will be feeding continuously on Justine for the next seven and a half months.. Ergo Justine no longer has any true love protection, she gave that up back in Ghost Story.  Not my assumption, it is the assumption of Thomas, he should know.. It is how it has worked from the beginning of the series, true love protects one from being fed upon by the Hunger demon, sex with someone other than one's true love cancels it.
 

Why does Justine keep bringing girls to Thomas for them to have sex with? Why did she say "rinse and repeat?" Why does the trailer show them not having direct physical contact. You're ignoring the point everyone's bringing up.

Maybe she is bi-sexual ?  In the few paragraphs devoted to her, while Harry does talk about her "glow" or aura from being pregnant, nothing is said about "rinse and repeat.."  As far as the trailer goes you've gone to the movies enough to know that sometimes they are not totally actuate. Also that is one scene, also in Peace Talks anyway, there is no scene with Justine and Thomas together to be touching or not touching.  Thomas is already beaten up in svartelve custody, when Harry goes to see her at their place.  Maybe Thomas has taken a lover because since Justine is already being constantly being fed upon by the baby Hunger he doesn't want to kill her?

[vultur]

True love's protection burns the Hunger demon

Not necessarily. It wouldn't burn a Malvora. And the Hunger demon *itself* isn't different, since Madrigal Raith could switch to feeding on fear like a Malvora.

So True Love might not be a protection in this instance. You might need True Love, Courage, *and* Hope.

... or even that might not help since this isn't emotion-based. Thomas' Hunger Demon doesn't need emotions to feed on his own life energy. Maybe no protection will work against feeding "from within".

[CrusherJen]

... or even that might not help since this isn't emotion-based. Thomas' Hunger Demon doesn't need emotions to feed on his own life energy. Maybe no protection will work against feeding "from within".

I think that's the key here. Just as Thomas' demon feeds on his own energy when there's no other food available, the baby's demon, connected to Justine through the womb, feeds on her, because that's what's available to it. And since Thomas' True Love doesn't protect him from his own internal Hunger, Justine's Love can't protect her from her baby's Hunger. They're going to need another solution.

[Mira]

Not necessarily. It wouldn't burn a Malvora. And the Hunger demon *itself* isn't different, since Madrigal Raith could switch to feeding on fear like a Malvora.

Maybe because Malvora fed off a totally different emotion that Lara and Thomas feed off of.  Where true love burned their Hunger, maybe extreme courage would burn Malvora's Demon.

I think that's the key here. Just as Thomas' demon feeds on his own energy when there's no other food available, the baby's demon, connected to Justine through the womb, feeds on her, because that's what's available to it. And since Thomas' True Love doesn't protect him from his own internal Hunger, Justine's Love can't protect her from her baby's Hunger. They're going to need another solution.

Exactly.

[ClintACK]

Wait...

Do we know that True Love only burns lust-feeding Whampires, or is that just a common fan theory?

[Arjan]

Wait...

Do we know that True Love only burns lust-feeding Whampires, or is that just a common fan theory?

There is woj about it as far as I remember.

[Mira]

Wait...

Do we know that True Love only burns lust-feeding Whampires, or is that just a common fan theory?

  I think it is more than a theory,  didn't Malvora attack Harry pretty successfully in White Night?  Can't remember if it was White Night, anyway in White Night Lara attempted to give Harry a big smacker on the lips and burnt the heck out of her own, that is when she said he must be still protected by his true love for Susan.  She then felt sorry for him because that meant he hadn't been with anyone since Susan left.  So if both happened in the same book, it is more than a theory.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

If courage burnt a Malvora then the touch of a true hero, someone who had put himself at mortal risk for another would burn them. Harry 101. Objects such as medals would burn

[Mira]

If courage burnt a Malvora then the touch of a true hero, someone who had put himself at mortal risk for another would burn them. Harry 101. Objects such as medals would burn

Yeah, I imagine the Medal of Honor would burn her to a crisp.

[vultur]

Wait...

Do we know that True Love only burns lust-feeding Whampires, or is that just a common fan theory?

Yes we do:

https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-vampires/

2009 Bitten by Books Q&A:
#62 “You’ve said that True Love (real True Love) only protects against WCVamps feeding on lust. What protects against the other WCVamps?”
It isn’t real complicated that way. The vamps who feed on fear get bad effects from real courage. Those who feed on despair choke on hope.

[ClintACK]

Huh.

Now, I wonder -- how much leeway does Thomas have to change the emotion he uses to feed? I'm sure it's not *easy*, but we've seen Madrigal Raith feed on fear, even though he's a Raith. Does it have to be a *negative* emotion, or does it just have to be a strong emotion and focused on him (an emotional connection)?

If a White Court Vampire became a motivational speaker, or a revival preacher, or a rock star could he feed non-fatally off the energy of the crowd?

[Mira]

Now, I wonder -- how much leeway does Thomas have to change the emotion he uses to feed? I'm sure it's not *easy*, but we've seen Madrigal Raith feed on fear, even though he's a Raith. Does it have to be a *negative* emotion, or does it just have to be a strong emotion and focused on him (an emotional connection)?

  He doesn't have to do much.  Remember when he was a hair dresser?  He'd turn on his vamp charm while he washed their hair, sending vibs that gave the women sexual pleasure.  They didn't go all orgasmic or anything, but gave off just thrills and chills so he could nibble, it was all under control.

When he wants a big meal or is really hurt and needs healing, then the Hunger goes all out with the pleasure signals, the victim might die, but he or she dies with a big smile on his or her face.

[vultur]

Now, I wonder -- how much leeway does Thomas have to change the emotion he uses to feed?

Apparently pretty much anything could work, and the 3-fold division is largely political/cultural.

Same WOJ page:

2011 Atlanta Signing
The three families of the White Court feed on different emotions, is that like knife, spoon, fork, or can they mix it up?
They can mix it up, and it’s one of the things they fight about a lot, about what they do.  There’s all this “you are what you eat” sort of thing in play, and the different houses have different aspects [unintelligible] divide things up by territory.  And you could feed on all sorts of stuff.  You could probably be a White Court vampire that fed on the warm happy feeling that people get when they’re holding a puppy.  Although you’d be a really….you’d probably sparkle if you did that.  [Unintelligible] it might actually be fun to show that in some future files.

But the thing is, they still feed on life energy regardless of what emotion they use. So feeding on something else wouldn't inherently make it safer for the people he fed on.

[Mira]

But the thing is, they still feed on life energy regardless of what emotion they use. So feeding on something else wouldn't inherently make it safer for the people he fed on.

  It is a matter of control.  When Thomas first began to feed off of Justine he drained only enough energy so that her mental state reached equalibium and her sanity returned.  When he was dying back in Blood Rites, she was willing to die, but though he could have used more energy, stopped because he loved her and didn't want to kill her, but she was physically changed by it, her hair turned white among other things.  When he was dressing hair, Thomas took so little from each lady that at most she might have felt a little fatigue after he was done with her.

[vultur]

  It is a matter of control.

Oh, I agree. But (as you point out with the hairdressing) Thomas can feed without much impact "as is". So while Thomas *could* change to a different emotion, I'm not sure there would be any point.

Now, arguably, if he changed to something else he wouldn't accidentally feed on Justine via touch, but I don't know if that would work... I don't think he'd lose the ability to feed on lust, and Thomas says his Hunger is specifically attracted to Justine (he can touch other people with True Love protection without being burned, after all...)