Author Topic: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)  (Read 4792 times)

Offline TrueMonk

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Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« on: August 04, 2020, 10:22:31 PM »
So some people has wondered; why were there not more members of the accords present at the peace talks? My guess is because they knew it would not end in peace. The Fomor are widely know for their betrayals (according to bombshells) and the last time they wanted to have peace talks in bombshells
(click to show/hide)

Any supernatural nation with just a tiny bit of caution in them would stay away. Unless they were forced by being a semi democracy of pansies (the white council), sticklers for following the rules (swartalves), figures it was the event of the century and had to be watched (Ivy) or some other very compelling reason.

At least I think there is a very good reason to stay away.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 10:25:38 PM by TrueMonk »

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2020, 11:54:17 PM »
Aside from Drakul and the Ukrainian Shapeshifter (who was actually there, he had shape shifted into Harry’s Hat, you saw the Peace Talks trailer special edition, the way the hat kept changing) who is missing? WOJ has it that we find out about Drakul in Battle Field, that likely means he and his forces are with the Fomor.

The Denarians had left the Accords, and the Red Court had left existence.

Offline ClintACK

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2020, 12:23:47 AM »
Who's missing?

Who isn't missing? There's one vampire court. One clan of ghouls. One wildfae embassy, since it happens to be in Chicago anyway. The two fairy courts. The wizards. Marcone, as host, and four other freeholding lords: Vadderung, Ferrovax, the Archive, and the Naga from the Ghoul-Goblin comic.

Who are missing: the other 5 remaining vampire courts; every other ghoul clan in the world; the rest of the wildfae (like Erlking and the Tylwyth Teg); the Venatori Umbrorum; the other sixteen freeholding lords. (We're told in White Night that there are about twenty total, pre-Marcone.)

Who else is missing: Anyone or anything from any continent other than North America. Even the White Council of Wizards sent its three North American Senior Council members and its four North American Wardens (plus Christos and Chandler). Vadderung's an exception, being European, but since Marcone is sort-of his protege, it makes sense that he'd show.

My theory: This isn't really a pan-Accords meeting. It's Marcone's party, and he got everyone with an interest in Chicago to show up, except the Tylwyth Teg (who were dealing with a sudden leadership vacuum). Drakul has no interest what goes on way across the ocean. Ditto the Ukrainian shapeshifting guru. And the Jade Court. And the Kenku. And the Miksani. And the Leyshiye. And the Rakshasa. And the Loa. And the wacky Lemur-folk of Madagascar. And so on and so on...


One weird line in the book -- when Harry makes Carlos's warden cape flap around as a distraction, we're told: "Several dozen security teams bolted for their primaries..." This is odd, since we've only been told of fifteen or so "primaries" if we're counting Etri and Evanna as two, Mab and Molly as two, and all four Senior Councilors as individuals.

So... perhaps there are twenty or thirty other delegations around, and we just weren't told about it?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2020, 12:26:36 AM »
I insist the Ukrainian was there, he is that good.

Offline ClintACK

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2020, 01:42:27 AM »
I insist the Ukrainian was there, he is that good.

Pretending to be Etri?

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2020, 01:53:43 AM »
Thought the Jade court was supposed to have a representative sent out in PT?

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 03:20:56 AM »
It was kinda weird that the remnants of the Greek pantheon didn't seem to make an appearance.  Hades at least still exists, and they're likely not wilting violets against the Fomor. 

A lot of the wildfae groups I could see counting themselves officially under Summer or Winter even though they're independent in day-to-day decisions.  Basically anyone that Molly tithes wouldn't send anyone.

The rakshasa missing are also surprising.  Surely they're Accords members? 

Groups from Asian or African mythologies would have also been nice.  Even if Jim had to cut down on the Chicago-side forces for BG, Ethniu killing their ambassadors out of hand at the end was an option.  It would have hyped her threat and made the world a bit wider.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 03:26:30 AM »
Another thought just occurred to me.  We know from Bombshells that the Fomor were aggressively targeting lots of smaller Accords nations to sign non-aggression pacts with them.  What if the groups that showed up in PT were just the ones that hadn't yet?
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline vultur

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2020, 06:59:32 AM »
Another thought just occurred to me.  We know from Bombshells that the Fomor were aggressively targeting lots of smaller Accords nations to sign non-aggression pacts with them.  What if the groups that showed up in PT were just the ones that hadn't yet?

Yeah, I think this is likely. We'll probably see a few of the "missing" groups show up on the Fomor's side in BG, and others might have non-aggression pacts and be staying out of it.

Some of the more localized groups might just not be involved, and therefore not care. Ethniu's Irish, and apparently the Fomor have a major stronghold (maybe even King Corb's?) under the Great Lakes. If the Fomor are basically an Atlantic/Great Lakes power, the Jade Court and the Ukrainian shapeshifter guru and others who are far from the Atlantic coasts might have seen no reason to show up.

I wouldn't assume the rakshasa and loa and all the other ghoul clans and every group of Wyldfae are necessarily on the Accords, either.

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2020, 07:07:35 AM »
Yeah, I think this is likely. We'll probably see a few of the "missing" groups show up on the Fomor's side in BG, and others might have non-aggression pacts and be staying out of it.

Some of the more localized groups might just not be involved, and therefore not care. Ethniu's Irish, and apparently the Fomor have a major stronghold (maybe even King Corb's?) under the Great Lakes. If the Fomor are basically an Atlantic/Great Lakes power, the Jade Court and the Ukrainian shapeshifter guru and others who are far from the Atlantic coasts might have seen no reason to show up.
Maybe I'm getting mixed up with the rpg, but weren't the Fomor attacking most coastal areas?  I forget where it came from, but I was under the impression that Ramirez and Elaine had their hands full with protecting paraneters in California.  Was that mentioned in Ghost Story?

I wouldn't assume the rakshasa and loa and all the other ghoul clans and every group of Wyldfae are necessarily on the Accords, either.
River Shoulders and his people are new additions, so possibly.  I think the rakshasa are likelier to be on the Accords than not, though.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline vultur

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2020, 08:37:41 AM »
Maybe I'm getting mixed up with the rpg, but weren't the Fomor attacking most coastal areas?
I don't really know. That was just a wild speculation based on "Even Hand" connecting them to the Great Lakes, and the Irish real-world-myth origin of the Fomorians.

Quote
River Shoulders and his people are new additions, so possibly.

I don't think they even are yet. River Shoulders expressed their interest in joining, but I don't think they got to "signing the paperwork" before Ethniu interrupted the talks.

As for the rakshasa -- they totally could be. I think regular demons (Chauncy/Kalshazzak/Azorthragal types, as opposed to Denarians) are not, and I was thinking rakshasa might be basically the Indian-milieu version of those.

I don't think the Knights, the Ordo Malleus (their clued-in support in the Church), or the angels are signed onto the Accords. The Fellowship of St. Giles I think might not be either. The Paranet definitely isn't. Not everything supernatural is.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2020, 08:45:38 AM »
If successful in the Defence of Chicago, and after what happened to Nudd, several other previously reluctant nations may decide to join, Wild Fae and others.

If it is considered a good fight the Goblins might join. That would keep everyone on their toes. I suspect Marcone would get on with them famously though.

Offline ClintACK

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 10:33:24 AM »
If successful in the Defence of Chicago, and after what happened to Nudd, several other previously reluctant nations may decide to join, Wild Fae and others.

If it is considered a good fight the Goblins might join. That would keep everyone on their toes. I suspect Marcone would get on with them famously though.

I'm pretty sure that's Mab's endgame -- this is all about tightening up the Accords into a victorious military alliance (victorious over the Fomor) so that she can call on them in a few years when the truly massive every-666-years Outsider Apocalypse comes.

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2020, 12:22:58 PM »
As I have said, if I were Odin I would allow the Never Never to the FBI building to remain open as that is accessible from the hall of the Erlking. Should the Fomor try to access Chicago that way the Goblins will give them a warm welcome bringing Erl and his people into the fight.


Offline ClintACK

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Re: Number of participants at the peace talks (spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2020, 12:50:20 PM »
I wonder if the Erlking would take offense at that. I'm thinking of the arguments the Eebs made to him in Changes, and his responses.

Then again, Vadderung knows him quite well (or at least Kringle does) and might have a better idea (or have discussed it with him first, which would only be polite).