Author Topic: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?  (Read 12306 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2020, 08:03:21 PM »
I suspect Lord Raith didn’t care about the mothers, so long as the child survived and was a girl that was all he cared about.

No, he didn't but if Lara was there helping to care for the babies that were born, presumably she cared.

Offline spiritofair

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2020, 09:05:50 PM »
Harry's reaction is understandable. I would be very reluctant to ask about abortion when someone tells me his wife is pregnant. I assume that if someone tells me they already have decided to keep the child and then starting about abortion would be wrong on so many levels.

We do not know what Thomas and Justine brought to their decision but those decisions are seldom completely rational anyway.
I mean, seriously. I would never ask anyone who said they were pregnant if they were considering an abortion... talk about an extremely out of line question. If they bring it up, sure, then it's open to discussion within the context that it is brought up.

Also, why on earth would a fantasy writer go down that path? Just seems like a great way to piss off half of his audience, whichever way it is handled.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2020, 09:09:39 PM »
It’s how Thomas survived.

I wonder if the succubi have an even lower fertility rate than the inccubi, we have only seen one Whamp mother Whamp child relationship.

What if in over a thousand years, a female Whamp can expect only to conceive once? However in that case, I suspect the Whamp mother is eating for two.

Thomas is the only surviving son of Lord Raith, if a boy this makes the child incredibly valuable to House Riath, a way of ending the reproductive bottle neck House Raith has found itself in.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2020, 10:21:00 PM »
A vampire mother should be easier, just feed more.
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2020, 11:04:29 PM »
I mean, seriously. I would never ask anyone who said they were pregnant if they were considering an abortion... talk about an extremely out of line question. If they bring it up, sure, then it's open to discussion within the context that it is brought up.

Also, why on earth would a fantasy writer go down that path? Just seems like a great way to piss off half of his audience, whichever way it is handled.
I agree entirely. As to your second part, why would he bring it up if the answer is no? It would be bringing up a touchy topic just so that everyone who feels strongly that abortion is wrong has a reason to not like Harry for bringing it up.

Offline Mira

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2020, 05:10:06 AM »
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I mean, seriously. I would never ask anyone who said they were pregnant if they were considering an abortion... talk about an extremely out of line question. If they bring it up, sure, then it's open to discussion within the context that it is brought up.

Even if it meant certain death for the mother?  Under normal circumstances you wouldn't ask that.. But we are talking the exception here, the life of the mother.   

Offline BrainFireBob

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2020, 12:18:36 PM »
Even if it meant certain death for the mother?  Under normal circumstances you wouldn't ask that.. But we are talking the exception here, the life of the mother.

It's not certain, even here. Just high risk.

Justine, recall, essentially has extra soul- it's the base of her relationship with Thomas.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2020, 01:38:05 PM »
I think bringing up abortion is an easy way to be sure you never have to talk together again, no matter the circumstances.

I think the real world equivalent of this dilemma is almost exactly the same thing and I cannot see bringing up abortion as ever ending well for anyone outside of the relationship, except a purely professional relation (e.g. the doctor).

The fact they they will most likely never ever get another kid is not making the subject any less touchy.

Offline Mira

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2020, 02:47:00 PM »
I think bringing up abortion is an easy way to be sure you never have to talk together again, no matter the circumstances.

I think the real world equivalent of this dilemma is almost exactly the same thing and I cannot see bringing up abortion as ever ending well for anyone outside of the relationship, except a purely professional relation (e.g. the doctor).

The fact they they will most likely never ever get another kid is not making the subject any less touchy.

  First of all, Harry isn't demanding anything.   And yeah, if Justine dies Thomas will never get another kid.  If knowing how much Thomas loves Justine, and his own concern for Justine, who apparently is almost certain to die here, first Harry would ask, is there any way to prevent the Hunger from feeding on her to the point where she will die giving birth? If the answer is no, then he might say there is a choice... For Justine it might be out of the question, she is willing to risk it.. For Thomas, Justine might be more important than the baby.. Bringing up the subject in this case shouldn't end any relationship Harry and Thomas have.  It isn't out of the question that Thomas and Justine talked about it and decided, what ever they decided, it their decision.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2020, 03:01:12 PM »
Your kind of forgetting that Harry has been in Justine’s position, he delivered his child whole and healthy.

Offline spiritofair

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2020, 04:27:31 PM »
Even if it meant certain death for the mother?  Under normal circumstances you wouldn't ask that.. But we are talking the exception here, the life of the mother.
You have a point, but I still don't know if I'd ever bring it up. If I were in Harry's shoes (I'd be a whimpering pile of neuroses, but that's beside the point), I might ask, "How can I help her through this?" But I cannot imagine jumping right to, "Have you considered aborting it?"

Offline Avernite

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2020, 04:50:23 PM »
We also should consider the True Love angle, IMO.

It's never been adequately explained what is and isn't part of it, but in a normal human relationship "wanting the other's children" is a quite common part of it. Not obligatory, but a common part anyway. I would certainly think 'sacrificing the product of our love (i.e. the child) for our love (i.e. Justine)' would complicate the love itself.

It could still be love, just not the ultra-rare True Love.

(and of course, no way Harry would bring it up. I mean... seriously. At least over here you don't bring that up, mostly because it's common to only tell people about pregnancies when it's slightly advanced so you've sort of already decided... so bringing it up would be second-guessing, too).

Offline Mira

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2020, 04:56:13 PM »
Your kind of forgetting that Harry has been in Justine’s position, he delivered his child whole and healthy.
His daughter was already born, he never knew about her until she was six years old.  Also as a fetus, little Maggie didn't have a Hunger Demon feeding off of Susan till the point of most likely dying giving birth.   No, I am not forgetting, Harry was never in Justine or Thomas's position.   He did chose to kill the mother to save the child, himself, and his grandfather... Susan agreed. 
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You have a point, but I still don't know if I'd ever bring it up. If I were in Harry's shoes (I'd be a whimpering pile of neuroses, but that's beside the point), I might ask, "How can I help her through this?" But I cannot imagine jumping right to, "Have you considered aborting it?"

No, that wouldn't or shouldn't be the first words out of Harry's mouth.. On the other hand that conversation never got to take place because with in minutes of that Carlos showed up.  I am not sure either if the implications of the danger to Justine or Thomas' fear for her had sunk in yet.  Harry's reply was mostly about the trials of becoming a father, what he was going through.
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(and of course, no way Harry would bring it up. I mean... seriously. At least over here you don't bring that up, mostly because it's common to only tell people about pregnancies when it's slightly advanced so you've sort of already decided... so bringing it up would be second-guessing, too).
What is odd, if people are right in their calculations that Justine is only six weeks pregnant, most women don't even know at that point.  Especially if she is on birth control, supposedly Thomas is "for intents, sterile,"  two weeks late for your cycle could mean a lot of things.  We don't even know if she is regular.. Some women aren't.  Yeah, I know she got a test, still, has she been to a doctor yet?

Offline vultur

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2020, 05:09:16 PM »
His daughter was already born, he never knew about her until she was six years old.

Pretty sure the reference is to Bonea, not Maggie. That "birth" could easily have killed Harry without Molly's help. It's not biological exactly, but the situation is not that dissimilar.

Offline vultur

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Re: Why Didn't Justine Just Abort?
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2020, 05:11:23 PM »
(and of course, no way Harry would bring it up. I mean... seriously.

Yeah, this. Not only for the general "social" reasons, but remember how Harry feels about family! I just don't think it would occur to him.