Will Harry Have to Come Clean?

[Mira]

She is his concubine. What is important is that she acted as Harry’s dependent under Harry’s command. That is enough.

I seriously doubt that Murphy would consider herself a concubine.  She may have acted as a soldier under Harry's command, but she'd never consider herself his dependent.. And if that was suggested, it would really piss her off.  From her viewpoint I believe she'd prefer to be called a vassal, though she might bristle at that as well.

[Arjan]

I seriously doubt that Murphy would consider herself a concubine.  She may have acted as a soldier under Harry's command, but she'd never consider herself his dependent.. And if that was suggested, it would really piss her off.  From her viewpoint I believe she'd prefer to be called a vassal, though she might bristle at that as well.

What she thinks about these things is not the most important consideration. It is about what people like Lea think and she was quite clear about Susan.

And we don't need a formal arrangement. There was never a formal arrangement between Harry and Toot for example, just short time deals.

The bottom line is that Murphy was not acting independently, she was Harry's responsibility.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I seriously doubt that Murphy would consider herself a concubine.  She may have acted as a soldier under Harry's command, but she'd never consider herself his dependent.. And if that was suggested, it would really piss her off.  From her viewpoint I believe she'd prefer to be called a vassal, though she might bristle at that as well.

Yes Murphy would get very prickly about being called a concubine.

She is acting as an equal with Harry in the rescue, it really is the Grave Peril dilemma all over again.

[Arjan]

Yes Murphy would get very prickly about being called a concubine.

She is acting as an equal with Harry in the rescue, it really is the Grave Peril dilemma all over again.

Time to formalize the relation then

[Mira]

The bottom line is that Murphy was not acting independently, she was Harry's responsibility.

You'd never convince her of that whether it is true or not, and actually you may have put your finger on what could lead to her ultimate downfall, even death..  Face it, she is hard headed and sees things her way and the last thing she wants is to be Harry's responsibility.  That is what her reaction was all about at the end of the book, she can look after herself.  That is why I said I thought she was being selfish, because if she does die, Harry will feel responsible for the rest of his life, he also knows he cannot stop her.

[Arjan]

You'd never convince her of that whether it is true or not, and actually you may have put your finger on what could lead to her ultimate downfall, even death..  Face it, she is hard headed and sees things her way and the last thing she wants is to be Harry's responsibility.  That is what her reaction was all about at the end of the book, she can look after herself.  That is why I said I thought she was being selfish, because if she does die, Harry will feel responsible for the rest of his life, he also knows he cannot stop her.

It doesn’t really matter in this case because Karin is smart and practical enough to go with any legal excuse Lara and Mab come up with to prevent the fallout. If she is informed about it at all.

But I don’t even think it will come up. I think Eb is wrong here. The white court is the accord member responsible for the whole affair and the svartalves are sticklers to the rules. They will work via Lara and she will take responsibility. Mab would not accept it if she tried to make Harry responsible and I don’t think the svartalves would accept that either.

And after the fight with the Fomor the outsider threat will be even more clear and the main members will want a diplomatic solution. Mab wants to keep her knight and so on. A diplomatic solution will be found. Nobody wants to offend Mab anyway.

Marcone soul gazed Harry. He knows Harry would go ballistic if he messes with Karin that way and I don’t think the svartalves are even interested in Karin. They were not interested in the Fomor servants in bombshells. They go for Lara as the responsible one.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Etri to Mab “release Thomas from Demonreach”

Mab to Etri ‘I can’t”

Etri to Lara “release Thomas from Demonreach”

Lara to Etri “I can’t “

Etri to to Harry “release Thomas from Demonreach”

Harry to Etri “ I can ,but I won’t”

Putting Thomas on Demonreach means Harry is outside Lara’s and Mab’s control completely when he is on the island, try and force him on the island and you get taken down whether Lara, Etri or Mab.

Murphy is not a servant or Vassal Harry goes down, Murphy goes down. Harry is sure he can unravel what happened to Thomas before this becomes an issue and Murphy trusts Harry to do so.

[Arjan]

Etri to Mab “release Thomas from Demonreach”

Mab to Etri ‘I can’t”

Etri to Lara “release Thomas from Demonreach”

Lara to Etri “I can’t “

Etri to to Harry “release Thomas from Demonreach”

Harry to Etri “ I can ,but I won’t”

Putting Thomas on Demonreach means Harry is outside Lara’s and Mab’s control completely when he is on the island, try and force him on the island and you get taken down whether Lara, Etri or Mab.

Murphy is not a servant or Vassal Harry goes down, Murphy goes down. Harry is sure he can unravel what happened to Thomas before this becomes an issue and Murphy trusts Harry to do so.

Etri to Mab: order your vassal to release Thomas from the island, he is your responsibility.

If you want to have a criminal who is locked up in a foreign country you ask the government of that country not the governor of the local prison.

[The_Sibelis]

Jim was once asked something along the lines of if Harry could take the Ladies Mantle, and his reply was not usually but Harry is one for breaking rules... Makes me wonder if Carlos staying a virgin isn't going to be relative to a powerful somehow actually...

[vultur]

Murphy is acting as Harry's retainer. Ask Toot.

And he can point to Mab as well. He is her vassal and she ordered him to obey Lara. He was only doing his duty. Ask Mab.

Basically it is Lara's duty to handle the diplomatic fallout and in the text she recognised that.

Yeah.

The Svartalves may go after Thomas once he is healed and released from Demonreach, but they'll have real trouble going after Harry.

The only outcome which allows Thomas to walk free from Etri’s wrath is if someone else used Thomas as a cats paw, and Harry can prove it and offer them up instead to placate Etri.

Not the only outcome, IMO. If Harry can get some other claim of honor of equal weight he might be able to get the Svartalves to drop it... for example if he saves Etri's life in BG.

...or he could always try the tactic of, "Yeah the Red Court tried to go after my family too. It didn't end well for them. You sure you want to try this?"

Not that I think it's a good idea...

[vultur]

Etri to Mab: order your vassal to release Thomas from the island, he is your responsibility.

If you want to have a criminal who is locked up in a foreign country you ask the government of that country not the governor of the local prison.

Yeah, but why should Mab listen to Etri? Under Faerie rules, rescuing Thomas was a favor given to Lara. I don't think Mab is going to go back on that.

Also it could be argued that Warden of Demonreach is a position Harry holds entirely separately from his position as Winter Knight...

I mean, the Svartalves are nothing to mess with lightly, but I can't see them having any leverage over Mab.

If Harry had been spotted rescuing Thomas during the talks, it would have been an embarrassment/loss of face to Mab. But now, especially given that the actual talks are now irrelevant?

[Mira]

Marcone soul gazed Harry. He knows Harry would go ballistic if he messes with Karin that way and I don’t think the svartalves are even interested in Karin. They were not interested in the Fomor servants in bombshells. They go for Lara as the responsible one.

However when they soul gazed that was back in Storm Front,  Harry and Murphy were barely friends, more along the line of professional colleagues.  Now as a possible future, that is if Marcone knew what he was looking at in the first place, it might have Harry and Murphy as lovers, but I doubt he'd have seen anything then that would tip him off that Harry would go ballistic if he messed with her.

That doesn't mean to say that he doesn't have more current information that tells him how Harry would react.

[The_Sibelis]

I don't think he needs to know they're lovers to know Harry will go ape sh*t for his friends.

[Arjan]

Yeah, but why should Mab listen to Etri? Under Faerie rules, rescuing Thomas was a favor given to Lara. I don't think Mab is going to go back on that.

Also it could be argued that Warden of Demonreach is a position Harry holds entirely separately from his position as Winter Knight...

I mean, the Svartalves are nothing to mess with lightly, but I can't see them having any leverage over Mab.

If Harry had been spotted rescuing Thomas during the talks, it would have been an embarrassment/loss of face to Mab. But now, especially given that the actual talks are now irrelevant?

Well yes, in the end Lara is the one to handle the diplomatic fallout though maybe the first favor was for Mab to help exactly with that.

[ClintACK]

Remember that all Harry has done is move Thomas from a prison cell *in which he was dying* to one in which he's held in stasis. If the politics are handled properly, the svartalves might owe a debt for that -- the transfer and rescue have spared them the dishonor of having Thomas die in their custody waiting for trial.

Regardless of where Thomas is, I expect the svartalves will want an emissary appointed and a hearing held to rule on the attack. That's the point at which it would be really helpful if Harry could present them with the actual culprit and evidence of what happened.