[PT Spoilers] Why Wait?

[Arjan]

Mab has a big army. Apparently she needs the outsiders to keep them busy.

The Fomor where on the losing side in the Sidhe wars mentioned by Bob in Ghost Story. The Sidhe had a lot of allies then, apparently nobody likes them.

[vultur]

They had the element of surprise and threw some weight around, but they didn't finish the job.  So maybe they are not as strong as they appear?  Meaning if given a minute to get their act together,  the combined power of Mab, Vadderung, Ferrovax and others may gave taken them.

Quite possibly. Ferrovax says that he won't fight directly since if he went all-out, it would do at least as much damage as Ethniu would. I do think Ethniu is somewhat stronger, since she seems to compel Ferrovax to speak against his will, but he might well be close.

So Mab + Odin + Ferrovax would probably match or outmatch Ethniu.

But even then, it might be inconclusive if Ethniu is a true Immortal, since it's not Halloween. If they blew up Chicago with collateral damage and Ethniu just tries again with another city later... that's not really a win for the home team.

The Fomor where on the losing side in the Sidhe wars mentioned by Bob in Ghost Story. The Sidhe had a lot of allies then, apparently nobody likes them.

Yeah.

I mean, the logical assumption would be that the Sidhe had equally strong or stronger beings on their side. Mythologically Balor was killed by Lugh (who was Ethniu's son, btw).

And maybe the Mothers were more active then, or the Summer/Winter split hadn't happened yet (so the Queens were double power).

Maybe something changed recently to affect the limits on godlike beings. (Part of the 666-year "starborn cycle"? Maybe the "stars are coming right" and reality is weakening before the Outsiders break in during the BAT?)

[BrainFireBob]

Because at core the Fomor are ancient enemies of the Fae. They know how powerful Winter truly is, and have been waiting for the right moment to attack.

[Mira]

But even then, it might be inconclusive if Ethniu is a true Immortal, since it's not Halloween. If they blew up Chicago with collateral damage and Ethniu just tries again with another city later... that's not really a win for the home team.

  I think the point is Ethniu and company are not going to stop with Chicago.  It is merely the first, so this is where they have to be stopped.

So Mab + Odin + Ferrovax would probably match or outmatch Ethniu.

Yup, that is why once the surprise was over and their statement made, they left.  Otherwise why didn't they have the battle right then and there?  Take out the big three and it's all over, oh yeah, no Battle Ground..

Quite possibly. Ferrovax says that he won't fight directly since if he went all-out, it would do at least as much damage as Ethniu would. I do think Ethniu is somewhat stronger, since she seems to compel Ferrovax to speak against his will, but he might well be close.

I think Ferrovax looks out for Ferrovax, he is powerful enough no one messes with him.  Just being what he is, he has influence and gets tribute without having to prove anything.  However as Michael demonstrated when he saved Charity, dragons are not invulnerable..

[Bad Alias]

If Ethniu can kick Mab through walls without even using the Eye, then she has the Eye of Balor on top of that (which Harry says is probably a "city killer"), and she's immune to any physical force (according to Etri) - why does she need to set anything up? Why does she need an army at all?

Just guesses. It takes too long to destroy everyone and keep them down by herself? She needs an army to destroy all the other supernaturals. Plenty of beings could just run away or avoid her. She needs an army to keep humanity in their place after kicking over the ant hill. Otherwise she'd be spending all her time kicking over ant hills.

[TrueMonk]

If Ethnui was powerful enough not to need it, why the big setup to land the suckerpunch on Mab? I mean, in real life terms kicking someone who does not see it untill just before it connects is pretty hard.

If a good karate guy sneaked (out of my class) sneaked up to me (who knows just a little karate) under a veil and kicked me I would not be standing up after he had done a bit of talking. Maybe I would never stand up again if he kicked me in the head.

My point being that she is strong enough to suckerpunch Mab. Which is shockingly strong, no doubt about it. But I think some people read too much into it.

[vultur]

If Ethnui was powerful enough not to need it, why the big setup to land the suckerpunch on Mab?

Because the goal wasn't to beat Mab in a fight, it was to break down the Accords by proving in front of everyone that Mab was incapable of defending the Accords.

Attacking Mab would be pointless in itself. She's immortal, and even if Ethniu could corner her on Halloween or at some other conjunction, she'd just be replaced (by Molly).

Everybody had to be watching or there would be no point.

Otherwise why didn't they have the battle right then and there?  Take out the big three and it's all over, oh yeah, no Battle Ground..

I don't think it really works that way. It's not Halloween, so a fight between Ethniu, Mab, and Odin now would be inconclusive since they are all Immortals. (Not sure about Ferrovax; did Michael kill Siriothrax at a conjunction? It definitely seems like his Mantle didn't pass on and create a new Dragon, so maybe the Dragons are a different kind of thing, not Immortals in the same sense.)

The real threat to Ethniu isn't any of the great powers, it's Harry, because of Demonreach. Imprisoning an Immortal is the only way to really get rid of them.

[Mira]

 But does Battle Ground take place on Halloween?  Can immortals only be taken out by mortals only on Halloween?  What happened before Halloween was invented?  Zeus took out Titans back in the day before All Hallows Eve was invented.  So can immortals take out other immortals any time they want?
Technically if she can be killed on Halloween, Mab isn't immortal.

[Arjan]

But does Battle Ground take place on Halloween?  Can immortals only be taken out by mortals only on Halloween?  What happened before Halloween was invented? 

Before Halloween there was Samhain and that tradition was already old when the Christians took it over. https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/history-of-halloween

It is about the change of the seasons so that means it is probably very ancient and important for agricultural societies.

Zeus took out Titans back in the day before All Hallows Eve was invented.  So can immortals take out other immortals any time they want?
Technically if she can be killed on Halloween, Mab isn't immortal.

There is also the stone table. We know it works on Halloween but other locations in time and space are possible.

In Changes the sacrifice of Maggie had to take place on a precise place and time. That could very well have made the red king more vulnerable.

[Mira]

Before Halloween there was Samhain and that tradition was already old when the Christians took it over. https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/history-of-halloween

It is about the change of the seasons so that means it is probably very ancient and important for agricultural societies.There is also the stone table. We know it works on Halloween but other locations in time and space are possible.

In Changes the sacrifice of Maggie had to take place on a precise place and time. That could very well have made the red king more vulnerable.

  Ideally, yes, but that isn't always the case...  Looking at it from the Fomor point of view, why would they attack when the timing would make them the most vulnerable to being stopped? The table also switches when winter turns to spring, so it doesn't have to be always Halloween..   Then there is the Summer Solstice, that might even be more significant..

[Arjan]

  Ideally, yes, but that isn't always the case...  Looking at it from the Fomor point of view, why would they attack when the timing would make them the most vulnerable to being stopped? The table also switches when winter turns to spring, so it doesn't have to be always Halloween..   Then there is the Summer Solstice, that might even be more significant..

Because how these things work. When you are at your most vulnerable your enemies are at their most vulnerable too and you can achieve something.

[vultur]

But does Battle Ground take place on Halloween?

No, it's going to be immediately after PT... it was originally intended to be the second part of PT.

Can immortals only be taken out by mortals only on Halloween?

Only on a conjunction; Halloween is one, but not the only one. The Stone Table Battlefield is another, at least for Fae immortals (as Bob explains to Harry in CD - that's why Harry, Toot-toot, and the other pixies could kill Aurora in SK).

What happened before Halloween was invented?

Bob has mentioned that the "physics" of magic change over time. The conjunctions were likely different at one time.

Zeus took out Titans back in the day before All Hallows Eve was invented.

The Titans were arguably imprisoned rather than killed, though since Tartarus is also an "afterlife" location, it's not entirely clear.

(Although I think Tartarus as prison of the Titans is an earlier concept than Tartarus as a 'general' hellish afterlife.)

So can immortals take out other immortals any time they want?

I don't think so, in general. Bob in CD says that Mab and Titania created the Stone Table Battlefield specifically as a place immortals can die, so balances of power can change in Faerie.

Although CD does say that Titania could pull Mab into oblivion with her... I don't know. Maybe Mab and Titania coming into direct opposition is considered a conjunction? Or actually "automatically" summons the battlefield?

Because how these things work. When you are at your most vulnerable your enemies are at their most vulnerable too and you can achieve something.

Yeah. Bob says that on Halloween "the locked stasis of immortality" becomes malleable. That's when they can increase the power of their mantles etc. Normally they can't die but also can't grow.

[BrainFireBob]

I still like my theory that starborn are walking conjunction points.

Also, being unable to be killed doesn't mean your mantle can't be taken- I rather think this is what the Stone Table actually does.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Stone Table most likely was designed by all six Faerie Queens to allow for the apportionment of power between them in instances where this was needed other than Halloween.

I suspect only six immortals can die at that place because the Mantles were set up that way. It’s a backdoor into the the whole immortality thing for those six built into the Mantles. It also allow power to be added to both Sumer and Winter if timed correctly.

[The_Sibelis]

Technically the table unmakes the mantle and just gives the pure energy. Or unmakes the immortal. That's why I think Mab made the current WK mantle specifically molded to Harry.
I'm not sure I'd believe the Fae actually made the stone table itself. Seems older, bigger than they are... I've always thought it was the Earth's hearthstone as it were... The stone part of stars and stones...