Vadderung

[KurtinStGeorge]

I believe that Odin is Odin.  Remember that he also holds the Mantle of Santa Claus.

And they each have their own persona; their own specific roles to play and the behavior that comes with it at certain times.  Vadderung is Odin's made up persona for the modern age, a mysterious and powerful human owner and CEO of a high tech personal security company.  And remember, that's how Harry first meets him, not as immortal god, but as a human CEO. 

So even though many human CEO's aren't exactly warm and fuzzy human beings, they don't hold a candle to the type of being Odin is described as being.  That's why it's not surprising that Vadderung can seem to Harry and us, like a more or less decent human being.  That was part of the role he was playing with Harry then.  It wasn't the role he was playing when he told Harry to "get out of the way" after their conversation was over in Skin Game or the role he was playing during the Wild Hunt in Cold Days.  Harry probably made a good decision; if not for entirely the right reason, not to speak directly with Odin at the party.  He might have found he was talking to an entirely different being than he was used to conversing with. 

[Arjan]

That was because Vadderung asked him not to. He trusted he had his reasons.

[Bacail]

@bacail... see Odin holding the all-father mantle, becoming capable of using his power, losing and eye, ect.
Or if you don't prescribe to that vein, like you pointed out the second half of mythologically Odin, Santa and Merlin are tied by the same thread, so Odin wasn't even Odin to begin with technically, he was Merlin. If you argued it the other way around, I might agree, but Santa is specifically just mantle, those are made to be worn. There's even Woj he has others work for him acting in his role, though it doesn't specify with his mantle, the role itself is shared all the same. Klaus the toymaker is one of his lackey's. You can hold more than one mantle, it's what the mother's do, and part of how Jim works with the Hindu gods, who all hold multiple Mantle's.

Except Odin predates Merlin by over 1000 years, and according to Eb, who has Merlin's journals, Odin was a teacher to Merlin. 

[The_Sibelis]

Except Odin predates Merlin by over 1000 years, and according to Eb, who has Merlin's journals, Odin was a teacher to Merlin.

lmfao, no, no he doesn't. He predates the stories your familiar with. Actually look into his history. An sure, that's in the books. But it isn't necessarily accurate.

[Bacail]

lmfao, no, no he doesn't. He predates the stories your familiar with. Actually look into his history. An sure, that's in the books. But it isn't necessarily accurate.

There is evidence that Odin worship may have come about in the Bronze Age (3000-1200 BCE) and Merlin was said to live in the middle to late 6th century CE.  Bit of a gap.

[The_Sibelis]

There is evidence that Odin worship may have come about in the Bronze Age (3000-1200 BCE) and Merlin was said to live in the middle to late 6th century CE.  Bit of a gap.

wodan, the earliest form of Odin, didn't come around until iirc 8th century. Soooo 🤷‍♂️ different name origin, different identity, probably the old Odin, which supports him being replaced then eh.

[Bacail]

wodan, the earliest form of Odin, didn't come around until iirc 8th century. Soooo 🤷‍♂️ different name origin, different identity, probably the old Odin, which supports him being replaced then eh.

"Odin appears as a prominent god throughout the recorded history of Northern Europe, from the Roman occupation of regions of Germania (from c.  2 BCE) through the tribal expansions of the Migration Period (4th to 6th centuries CE) and the Viking Age (8th to 11th centuries CE)."

That's just from when the Romans decided to go poke that particular bear.  there is more evidence that he was worshiped for hundreds, possibly a 1000 years before that.  It's hard to pin down because those tribes back then mostly used Oral Tradition for a lot of things. 

[The_Sibelis]

". Odin probably originated in the myths of early Germanic peoples, who called him Wodan"
"Odin appears in many stories as a womaniser, even boasting of his affairs, reminiscent of (and perhaps inspired by?) Zeus from Greek mythology."
"recorded history of Northern Europe, from the Roman occupation of regions of Germania (from c.  2 BCE) through the tribal expansions of the Migration Period (4th to 6th centuries CE) and the Viking Age (8th to 11th centuries CE). In the modern period the rural folklore of Germanic Europe continued to acknowledge Odin."
"narratives regarding Odin are mainly found in Old Norse works recorded in Iceland, primarily around the 13th century. These texts make up the bulk of modern understanding of Norse mythology."
"the Ęsir as a group, which includes both Thor and Odin, were late introductions into Northern Europe and that the indigenous religion of the region had been Vanic"
My scholars disagree with your scholars 🤷‍♂️

[Arjan]

It is difficult to tell when the worship of Odin/Wodan started but it seems to me that the rise of his cult was parallel with the rise of Germanic royalty because he is the god of kings and high nobility and their warriors.

All Anglo-Saxon kings according to Bede descended from Woden for example.

Those kings gained power because of continuous roman pressure (and opportunity for plunder) which resulted in bigger states with more centralized power. But he might have been a less important god before that. Also Tacitus might have referred to him but because of roman interpretation of foreign gods it is difficult to be sure.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Germanic-religion-and-mythology/Mythology

[BrainFireBob]

It is difficult to tell when the worship of Odin/Wodan started but it seems to me that the rise of his cult was parallel with the rise of Germanic royalty because he is the god of kings and high nobility and their warriors.

All Anglo-Saxon kings according to Bede descended from Woden for example.

Those kings gained power because of continuous roman pressure (and opportunity for plunder) which resulted in bigger states with more centralized power. But he might have been a less important god before that. Also Tacitus might have referred to him but because of roman interpretation of foreign gods it is difficult to be sure.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Germanic-religion-and-mythology/Mythology

Yes, I've seen speculation that Tyr was actually the pre-eminent Scandic deity, once upon a time, before Odin rose to prominence.

On Dresden: I have been expecting for a long time that beneath all the mantles will be someone surprising. Balor is my most recent guess, but I'm not tossing out Gilgamesh. Heck, given Norse traditions revolving around how he learned seidr, might be a woman under there.

Mavra's the only other character as mysterious- why did she let Dresden go with a lesson, of all things? Did she not want the Blackstaff to make it personal and knew of the relationship? Is she family?

[The_Sibelis]

The most interesting thing about Mavra to me is she's one of only two beings who appear exactly the same under his wizards sight, the other being Mister...

[Arjan]

Mavra's the only other character as mysterious- why did she let Dresden go with a lesson, of all things? Did she not want the Blackstaff to make it personal and knew of the relationship? Is she family?

In Blood Rites? Because she saw an opportunity to use Harry as proven in Dead Beat.

In Dead Beat? Because she was afraid of what Harry would do if really pressured. We have some idea of what the darkhallow might bring, We have a very good idea about what asking Mab for help might bring but only Harry and Mavra know what using necromancy against the black court means. It could be more scary for Mavra than the other two.

The black court vampires who survived the purge are not just powerful but also careful. Mavra won't risk herself easily. That is why she used Harry in dead beat.

[Bacail]

". Odin probably originated in the myths of early Germanic peoples, who called him Wodan"
"Odin appears in many stories as a womaniser, even boasting of his affairs, reminiscent of (and perhaps inspired by?) Zeus from Greek mythology."
"recorded history of Northern Europe, from the Roman occupation of regions of Germania (from c.  2 BCE) through the tribal expansions of the Migration Period (4th to 6th centuries CE) and the Viking Age (8th to 11th centuries CE). In the modern period the rural folklore of Germanic Europe continued to acknowledge Odin."
"narratives regarding Odin are mainly found in Old Norse works recorded in Iceland, primarily around the 13th century. These texts make up the bulk of modern understanding of Norse mythology."
"the Ęsir as a group, which includes both Thor and Odin, were late introductions into Northern Europe and that the indigenous religion of the region had been Vanic"
My scholars disagree with your scholars 🤷‍♂️

yes, 2 BCE, 542 years before merlin supposedly was active.  And that's just when the Romans encountered Odin.  he was around earlier than that.

edit: clarity

[spiritofair]

Vadderung operates a ruthless mercenary organization. Sure, maybe he's a nice guy to Dresden, but he's in no way whatsoever a "nice guy". His goals appear to coincide with Harry's, and that's why he is nice to Harry.

[vultur]

In Dead Beat? Because she was afraid of what Harry would do if really pressured. We have some idea of what the darkhallow might bring

Yeah. And it's not just the Darkhallow; Mavra was talking to Harry directly there, not under a veil as in BR. She's probably not 100% sure she could survive a full-strength blast from him.

I mean, Mavra is a likely wizard-level practitioner herself, she could probably shield long enough to get out of sight with her superhuman speed.

But she probably didn't get to be centuries old by taking chances that she can just probably survive.

If she actually intended to kill Harry, she wouldn't start visible and facing him down. She'd probably send minions to shoot him or burn down the place he's staying.