Speculation: What did Mab remove from Harry's memory this time?

[RulesLawyer]

I'm proposing that the slip up of Dresden mentioning in Peace Talks that he's only been in the BFS while dead is not a mistake, it's a clue.

In Skin Game, Molly and Dresden go to the BFS. Dresden specifically mentions how he unnerves the guard with his ghost knowledge of the facility. It's half of a chapter at the end of the book. Not likely to be forgotten by Jim. No way the betas missed it either. That means Dresden doesn't remember the Skin Game visit.

So, what happened at the Skin Game visit. Dresden and Molly confronted Marcone and Mab, who was in her judgement aspect. Why? If Marcone and Mab were in cahoots why be in judgment form? After Harry and Molly mollify (pun intended) Marcone through the wereguild, Mab does the following: "But, she [Mab] regarded me with a look of displeasure that promised me a reckoning later. Molly got the same glare."

What was the reckoning? Why doesn't Harry remember that confrontation? I'm speculating that Mab altered his memory, again. She did it before in Small Favor with his memory of fire, which was a very deep set of memories. She must have done it fast too during their meeting in the street.

This seems to fit with the book Peace Talks. The whole book feels just a bit...off. Can't put my finger on why. It's like we are missing a scene or two. My vote is that Mab and Marcone are up to something. The whole Peace Talks are their idea/host. Dresden was likely either involved with their plan or would do something against Mab's interest if his memories weren't taken. If I had to speculate further, the whole services to Lara and rescue of Thomas was likely completed expected or planned by Mab and known by Marcone. And Mab likely was very aware of the last Titan. They likely have a history and this whole mess was part of her plan to likely clear out earth conflicts to focus on the upcoming outsider problem. It's like she (and Odin) are checking off a list.

It might explain a few things too, like the conjuritis (and not-supposed-to-happen) ache through the winter mantle. I would wager they are related to some stuff that was wiped. Could also explain why after buying off Marcone someone is still putting police pressure on Harry and Karin. And, I hate to say it, but after reading "Love Hurts" in Side Jobs, doesn't Karin and Harry's new love relationship seem just a bit..odd. Believable, but odd.

Something's up. What do you all think?   

 

[Griffyn612]

Bump because of delayed approval.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Mab removed every single memory from Harry regarding his habitual hat wearing, and did the same from every other entity.

Perhaps she removed from Harry the knowledge regarding Conjouritis AFTER infecting him.

[vultur]

I'm proposing that the slip up of Dresden mentioning in Peace Talks that he's only been in the BFS while dead is not a mistake, it's a clue.

Quite possible.

It's like we are missing a scene or two. My vote is that Mab and Marcone are up to something.

I agree here.

If I had to speculate further, the whole services to Lara and rescue of Thomas was likely completed expected or planned by Mab and known by Marcone.

Yeah - given Thomas being moved to Marcone's building so Harry and Lara could rescue him, a very good bet. 

And, I hate to say it, but after reading "Love Hurts" in Side Jobs, doesn't Karin and Harry's new love relationship seem just a bit..odd. Believable, but odd.

Well, I don't think this can be the result of mind manipulation, because Lara's reaction to Harry demonstrates that it's actually True Love.

But otherwise I agree.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Little Chicago. Harry knows his lab is there but doesn’t think about Little Chicago or wonder what happened to it (or his comic book collection either, but I am presuming that is less essential). There is also the reference to the old copper summoning circle, not his fancy Swartalves circle which was concurrent with LC and which would have been a memory linked to LC. Why mention that and not LC? His previous visit in SG missing, did he see something which might have been relevant to LC? So that memory had to go? Along with the memory of that visit.

[The_Sibelis]

I'm still convinced the timelines slipping more as we get closer to the event horizon (like the echos in CD) but I agree Mab might have kept stuff hidden to keep Harry from thinking about it consciously. Just get ahold of his ID and explain things and he'd probably help cover it.

[ClintACK]

Interesting. So, assume Mab took Harry's memory of: (1) Coming to BFS to see Marcone (and Mab) at the end of Skin Game, and (2) His basement lab, as it existed post-Death Masks. (I thought it was going to be about Little Chicago, but the silver summoning ring makes an appearance much earlier in Blood Rites, where we're told he upgraded it to contain Lasciel's coin, several books earlier)

Several other things not mentioned in Peace Talks (thus, potentially erased):

• Lasciel and Lash and Hannah Ascher
  
• The fact that Bonea is his daughter -- "Ever since the new-formed spirit of intellect had coalesced inside my mind, it had grown until it was too big for the space..." Perhaps I'm reading too much into it -- but Harry doesn't seem to remember how Bonea came to be in his head.
  
• Soulfire -- He doesn't ask Eb whether soulfire would be useful against the Corner Hounds, and his fire is suddenly "emerald" in color. In Skin Game he's hurling the "silver-white fire of Creation itself" -- and when he draws power into his staff making the runes glow, it's "green-white light and silvery soulfire". (And remember that he only got soulfire as a result of Lash teaching him to use hellfire...)
  

Combine with the inexplicable news that the Genoskwa is around, which suggests that Hannah Ascher, or at least Lasciel's coin, might have escaped as well...

And...

Well...

Only wild speculation beyond that.

But what if Mab and Marcone collected those coins for nefarious purposes, and had them with them at the end of Skin Game. Might they have worried that between them Harry and Molly might have been able to sense that?

Thorned Namshiel's coin went missing during another weird "Mab, Marcone, and the Denarians" adventure in Small Favor.

Wild and crazy theory: Marcone has three Denarians owing him favors -- the Genoskwa for the rescue, plus the new hosts of Lasciel and Namshiel for giving them the coins.

Wilder theory: Lara has Lasciel's coin. The first favor was erasing all memory of Lasciel from Harry's mind. This could explain Lara's "off" behavior through the book -- and Thomas could have made a bargain with Lasciel -- or even taken up a coin as part of such a bargain.

Even wilder guess: Marcone's had Namshiel's coin for well over a year now. Did *he* take up the coin? Did he give it to Hendricks (beard=evil!)? Did he give it to Childs? (Or did he give it to Mab, who wanted vengeance on the fallen angel that used hellfire on Arctis Tor, in return for a ton of help building his Barony -- hence the supernatural bank and hosting the Peace Talks...)

[knightedbishop]

Interesting theory! I like it much better than believing Jim was sloppy.

[vultur]

Several other things not mentioned in Peace Talks (thus, potentially erased):

• Lasciel and Lash and Hannah Ascher

Eh, I don't think anything came up that would lead Harry to mention them.

Combine with the inexplicable news that the Genoskwa is around,

That was a surprise, but maybe not inexplicable. Denarians are specifically described as being really hard to kill, and we don't know that much about the Forest People's magic, but they have this crazy super-life aura... I guess Ursiel-Genoskwa being able to do Wolverine style healing from a blood smear isn't really that bizarre, at least if the coin remained in contact with the blood smear.

Wilder theory: Lara has Lasciel's coin.

I wondered about this. The Genoskwa could have recovered the coin from Hades. And Lasciel's prior issues with Harry could explain why Lara's Hunger is now trying to feed when she touches Harry, which didn't previously happen (in WN Lara didn't get burned until she actively used her emotion-power on him in a kiss to boost Harry's shield spell; in TC there's kind of a big deal made about how Lara, unlike Madeline, has that level of control over her Hunger).

But I can't really see Lara accepting a Coin. Why would she risk losing control like that?[/list]

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Hunger plus Fallen Angel? It would be getting a little crowded.

Checking with the Wiki the summoning circle was copper through Storm Front to Turn Coat. It was upgraded to Swartalves manufacture by changes to braided iron, silver and copper. It was used to summon various entities for info on Maggie.

In Changes he learns Leas murder garden is on the Never Never side. Could that memory have been taken to force Harry to take Thomas to  Demonreach as well as the memory of Little Chicago? If Harry had taken Thomas to Leas demesne that would have implicated Winter, this forced him to Demonreach and access to the weapons. If had gone through the Never Never and used the gem to escape he wouldn’t be in Chicago to learn about Ethnui

Lea most likely took Little Chicago through to the Murder Garden, where she can update it the retention of the lab means the link is still good, Harry can access it in BG when that memory is returned

Lasciels coin was kept under a separate steel ring underground.

[The_Sibelis]

Hunger plus Fallen Angel? It would be getting a little crowded.

Checking with the Wiki the summoning circle was copper through Storm Front to Turn Coat. It was upgraded to Swartalves manufacture by changes to braided iron, silver and copper. It was used to summon various entities for info on Maggie.

In Changes he learns Leas murder garden is on the Never Never side. Could that memory have been taken to force Harry to take Thomas to  Demonreach as well as the memory of Little Chicago? If Harry had taken Thomas to Leas demesne that would have implicated Winter, this forced him to Demonreach and access to the weapons. If had gone through the Never Never and used the gem to escape he wouldn’t be in Chicago to learn about Ethnui

Lea most likely took Little Chicago through to the Murder Garden, where she can update it the retention of the lab means the link is still good, Harry can access it in BG when that memory is returned

Lasciels coin was kept under a separate steel ring underground.

the wiki lies... It was pointed out it changed from copper to bronze and back in the early books. I didn't catch this myself but it was pointed out.

[morriswalters]

Interesting theory! I like it much better than believing Jim was sloppy.

I hate to disappoint you but....
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There are multiple issues in both the text and audio book.  I own both. The audio book has some rough edges, volume changes, subtle changes in the characters voices and there are a lot of small things in the text version.  None of them are show stoppers, just irritants.

[ClintACK]

Checking with the Wiki the summoning circle was copper through Storm Front to Turn Coat. It was upgraded to Swartalves manufacture by changes to braided iron, silver and copper. It was used to summon various entities for info on Maggie.

Rare example of the wiki being wrong, then.

The copper/bronze circle was upgraded to silver between Death Masks and Blood Rites, when he buried Lasciel's coin. This was later upgraded to the deluxe svartalf model.

A worktable ran down the middle of the room, and at its far end was a comparatively recent concrete patch that did not match the rest of the floor. The patch was surrounded by the summoning circle set into the stone. I'd splurged on replacing the old ring with a new one made of silver and I'd moved everything in the room as far from it as I could.

The thing I'd locked up under the circle had been quiet since the night I had sealed it into a spirit prison, but when it came to entombing a fallen angel, I was pretty sure that there was no such thing as too much caution.

Eh, I don't think anything came up that would lead Harry to mention them.

I'd have expected him to mention Lash, in passing, when introducing their daughter on screen for the first time.

And when he heard that the Genoskwa had somehow survived and made it out of Hades, I'd have expected him to think of Hannah Ascher and Lasciel's coin and wonder.

But the big one was soulfire. He's mentioned before that soulfire is particularly potent against certain creatures -- red court vampires, frequently, but also outsiders. Heck, in Cold Days he made a Walker scream in pain by hitting it with soulfire. It was a shocking omission in the fight with the corner hounds -- especially when there was an extended discussion about what magical weapons would be most effective against outsiders.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Rare example of the wiki being wrong, then.

The copper/bronze circle was upgraded to silver between Death Masks and Blood Rites, when he buried Lasciel's coin. This was later upgraded to the deluxe svartalf model.

I'd have expected him to mention Lash, in passing, when introducing their daughter on screen for the first time.

And when he heard that the Genoskwa had somehow survived and made it out of Hades, I'd have expected him to think of Hannah Ascher and Lasciel's coin and wonder.

But the big one was soulfire. He's mentioned before that soulfire is particularly potent against certain creatures -- red court vampires, frequently, but also outsiders. Heck, in Cold Days he made a Walker scream in pain by hitting it with soulfire. It was a shocking omission in the fight with the corner hounds -- especially when there was an extended discussion about what magical weapons would be most effective against outsiders.

The odd thing about Harry not remembering that soul fire is an effective weapon against Outsiders, is that Harry did remember that Outsiders couldn't really mind whammy him for more than a second or two.  So it's not like Harry has forgot everything about Outsiders or his own strengths when facing them.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I hate to disappoint you but....
post 1
post 2
There are multiple issues in both the text and audio book.  I own both. The audio book has some rough edges, volume changes, subtle changes in the characters voices and there are a lot of small things in the text version.  None of them are show stoppers, just irritants.

I was just listening to the interview Jim did on Facebook about Peace Talks.  Now it's easy for us to say the book was split in two as a cash grab by the publisher, but Jim said; well, he screwed up writing the novel.  Jim wanted the story to take a big left turn about two thirds through the story, something that would be really cool.  (I'm paraphrasing, I don't remember Jim's exact words.)  However, Jim's editor said that the story had become kind of a mess.  Not only was it suggested that the story should be split in two, but Jim had to make some changes, some additions to the story, in order for the first book (Peace Talks) to work.

So, my guess is a lot of work; by both Jim and the publisher, went into the changes made in Peace Talks to make it a (sort of) stand alone story; whereas in every other Dresden Files novel that time and effort would have been exclusively spent on polishing the existing story.  It makes me wonder how well Battle Ground will read.