Is Eb the Bad Guy?

[The_Sibelis]

@ellarite.... I like it, I like it alot.

[morriswalters]

Side note:  did anyone notice his deep rage upon finding out that Thomas is his Wampire grandson?  I'm starting to wonder if Lefay herself is a product of Ebs wife and another Wampire.  Maybe the HUNGER killed Mrs. Eb during her pregnancy.
---Could create another parallel...Harry had a kid with a pseudo-Rampire.  Hmmmmm...

Had that last been the case the bloodline curse wouldn't have worked.  Which makes the conceit behind Changes moot, which would make Jim look like a dufus. From the conversation in Peace Talks it looks like someone ate Mama.  Maybe a White Court ally of Eb's. You know what they say, once bitten, twice shy. But you never know.

[Mira]

There are tests for that.

There are, I know that, but if they are using birth control even though Thomas is convinced he is sterile.. Don't you think it kind of strange that the first thing you run to is a pregnancy test if you are a couple of weeks over due?  Unless Justine was trying to get pregnant and didn't tell Thomas.. Or yeah, Thomas may not be the father.

[Arjan]

There are, I know that, but if they are using birth control even though Thomas is convinced he is sterile.. Don't you think it kind of strange that the first thing you run to is a pregnancy test if you are a couple of weeks over due? 

I don’t know about the US but here those tests are cheap and available everywhere without prescription. It is the first thing you do when you are young, have regular sex and a couple of weeks over due.

Unless Justine was trying to get pregnant and didn't tell Thomas.. Or yeah, Thomas may not be the father.

The second does not follow from the first.

[BrainFireBob]

Is Eb acting as an abuser, trying to get Harry to "return" to the Council?

[KurtinStGeorge]

I would be "all in" on Ebenezer being the bad guy except it's a bit too obvious.  If it turned out that Ebezer was nemfected or even if he wasn't but decided to remove Thomas by mind whammying him into attacking Etri, I would find that to be really weak writing.  Yes, it obvious that when Eb said, "Time to get to work," while he was leaving the Swarthalf compound; he hadn't given up on making Harry "see reason."  Ebenezer had a plan, or at least an idea, that he was going to pursue no matter what Harry thought.

Ebenezer's idea must have involved time travel, probably to the future because changing the past is too difficult.  That's why the corner hounds were so interested in him.  I wouldn't be surprised if Eb gained information that might clear Thomas, but he doesn't care to do so because he was trying to save Harry from himself.

Mab would definitely have called Ebenezer an abuser; if she understood the concept, that is.  I'm disappointed that Harry didn't learn from Mab and turn Eb's argument about abusers against him, the way Mab turned Harry's argument about Molly against Harry in Cold Days.  It would have been quite stunning if Harry had said something like, "Abusers isolate their victims.  Like I was isolated when I left in the foster system, and again when I was left to be trained by Justin and when I saved from the Council's wrath by you.  Yea, I think I know all about being isolated by an abuser."  Harry could have felt really guilty about saying it later, but it would have been awesome at the time he said it.   

     

[Mira]

Mab would definitely have called Ebenezer an abuser; if she understood the concept, that is.  I'm disappointed that Harry didn't learn from Mab and turn Eb's argument about abusers against him, the way Mab turned Harry's argument about Molly against Harry in Cold Days.  It would have been quite stunning if Harry had said something like, "Abusers isolate their victims.  Like I was isolated when I left in the foster system, and again when I was left to be trained by Justin and when I saved from the Council's wrath by you.  Yea, I think I know all about being isolated by an abuser."  Harry could have felt really guilty about saying it later, but it would have been awesome at the time he said it.   

That would have been perfect.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry with his Wizards senses was able to ascertain that Justine was pregnant separate to being told Thomas. Any practitioner with sufficient sensitivity would have been able to determine this, including any Wizards surveilling the White Court.

Information had been getting out for several weeks at the White Court, this would indicate that the surveilling wizard had been in Chicago for weeks/months, and that would leave a physical trail Harry can find. The wizards are at the Four Seasons, should be possible to check whether any were there in the preceding months.

I wonder if Chandler is in fact the White Council’s surveillance and information expert amongst the Wardens, he isn’t a fighter, but is strangely present during the Peace Talks, and may be Eb’s man on the ground.

[Logistics515]

Harry with his Wizards senses was able to ascertain that Justine was pregnant separate to being told Thomas. Any practitioner with sufficient sensitivity would have been able to determine this, including any Wizards surveilling the White Court.

Information had been getting out for several weeks at the White Court, this would indicate that the surveilling wizard had been in Chicago for weeks/months, and that would leave a physical trail Harry can find. The wizards are at the Four Seasons, should be possible to check whether any were there in the preceding months.

I wonder if Chandler is in fact the White Council’s surveillance and information expert amongst the Wardens, he isn’t a fighter, but is strangely present during the Peace Talks, and may be Eb’s man on the ground.

Well, Harry sensed something. He interprets it as being a pregnancy aura, but he really doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the matter. Certainly nothing like this was described with Charity back in Grave Peril.

I think he sensed something, but is misinterpreting it...as fits the big theme of the book.

[Mira]

Well, Harry sensed something. He interprets it as being a pregnancy aura, but he really doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the matter. Certainly nothing like this was described with Charity back in Grave Peril.

I think he sensed something, but is misinterpreting it...as fits the big theme of the book.

Yeah, unless he got a crash course from Listens to Wind..

[Bad Alias]

Harry with his Wizards senses was able to ascertain that Justine was pregnant separate to being told Thomas. Any practitioner with sufficient sensitivity would have been able to determine this, including any Wizards surveilling the White Court.

They may needed to have been in close proximity, so it's not necessarily true that they would have detected it.

Well, Harry sensed something. He interprets it as being a pregnancy aura, but he really doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the matter. Certainly nothing like this was described with Charity back in Grave Peril.

Why mention the obviously pregnant lady has the aura of a pregnant lady?

[Mira]

don’t know about the US but here those tests are cheap and available everywhere without prescription. It is the first thing you do when you are young, have regular sex and a couple of weeks over due.

Even if your partner is pretty sure he is sterile and you, yourself are carefully using birth control?  Okay, Thomas could be using a condom, but the long and the short is according to Thomas they were taking measures..  So, no, two weeks late I must be pregnant isn't usually the first thing that should have popped into Justine's head, and I am well aware that the tests are easy to acquire.  Unless, she was lying to Thomas and she wasn't using protection or she does have a lover on the side and that is how she turned up pregnant.  Now the latter would really be tragic if Thomas was motivated to make the assassination attempt in an effort to get her protected from the embyro Hunger demon, and in reality, there is no demon because Thomas isn't the father.

[Arjan]

Even if your partner is pretty sure he is sterile and you, yourself are carefully using birth control?  Okay, Thomas could be using a condom, but the long and the short is according to Thomas they were taking measures..  So, no, two weeks late I must be pregnant isn't usually the first thing that should have popped into Justine's head, and I am well aware that the tests are easy to acquire.  Unless, she was lying to Thomas and she wasn't using protection or she does have a lover on the side and that is how she turned up pregnant.  Now the latter would really be tragic if Thomas was motivated to make the assassination attempt in an effort to get her protected from the embyro Hunger demon, and in reality, there is no demon because Thomas isn't the father.

Depends how regular Justines cycle usually is and how alert she is. but for about 5 euros you can get two tests.  It is cheap, it is easy and fast and you can stop asking yourself what is going  on and make evidence based decisions. Some people will start thinking about it after a week, others will put their head in the sand for months but I can totally believe that after two weeks Justine bought one and used it.

And maybe there are other signs that Thomas can detect.   

[Mira]

Depends how regular Justines cycle usually is and how alert she is. but for about 5 euros you can get two tests.  It is cheap, it is easy and fast and you can stop asking yourself what is going  on and make evidence based decisions. Some people will start thinking about it after a week, others will put their head in the sand for months but I can totally believe that after two weeks Justine bought one and used it.

And maybe there are other signs that Thomas can detect.

That could be, I'm just saying from the way Thomas described things to Harry, pregnancy was remote, male White Court Vamp, sperm count very low to none, partner on birth control, rushing to get a pregnancy test before checking other things?  I'm just saying.  So perfect storm of maybe because of his mother, Thomas' sperm count is higher than he thought, and Justine's birth control totally failed.  What are the odds?  Yeah, I know, but still..

 So pregnancy puts Justine in danger, which freaks out Thomas to the point where he'd try to assassinate his lover's brother, which sets off a big mess.  This screams set up, beginning with Justine getting pregnant in the first place when she shouldn't have been able to, ending with her rushing out to get tested.