Peace Talks - What did you like? What didn't you like? What were you expecting?

[ClintACK]

I keep reminding myself that we've only seen half the book.

Hopefully, there will be a reason (other than some sort of fan-service) for the emphasis on the threesome -- whether it's a clue that Andi's been compromised by Nemesis (probably during Aftermath, when she and Georgia were held by the fomor for a few days -- compare the pregnant Georgia who was still resisting ("She hassss not yet capitulated... interesting.") to Andi who was catatonic); or perhaps it's there to set up a moment when the Alphas have been slaughtered and Butters goes out in a blaze of glory avenging them (and getting Harry the sample of Ethniu's blood that he needs to win).

Similarly, the conjuritis, while the comic effect falls a bit flat for me, is probably there to set up the reveal that Maggie is a wizard and to help Harry learn a new facet of wizardry.

I mean, imagine having this discussion halfway through Dead Beat and people rolling their eyes at the super-hot nerd-girl Shiela who's just throwing herself at Dresden and fulfilling every stupid damsel-in-distress stereotype in the book. Talk about fan service! But she turned out to be a pretty big part of the plot of the next several books.

[Mira]

I keep reminding myself that we've only seen half the book.

Hopefully, there will be a reason (other than some sort of fan-service) for the emphasis on the threesome -- whether it's a clue that Andi's been compromised by Nemesis (probably during Aftermath, when she and Georgia were held by the fomor for a few days -- compare the pregnant Georgia who was still resisting ("She hassss not yet capitulated... interesting.") to Andi who was catatonic); or perhaps it's there to set up a moment when the Alphas have been slaughtered and Butters goes out in a blaze of glory avenging them (and getting Harry the sample of Ethniu's blood that he needs to win).

Similarly, the conjuritis, while the comic effect falls a bit flat for me, is probably there to set up the reveal that Maggie is a wizard and to help Harry learn a new facet of wizardry.

I mean, imagine having this discussion halfway through Dead Beat and people rolling their eyes at the super-hot nerd-girl Shiela who's just throwing herself at Dresden and fulfilling every stupid damsel-in-distress stereotype in the book. Talk about fan service! But she turned out to be a pretty big part of the plot of the next several books.

True, I've also thought that was the purpose of the conjuritis, but I don't know even if it helps reveal that Maggie has talent if it needed to be drawn out that long?  Especially if people have read Zoo Day, it becomes a "duh."  Not quite the same as Sheila, Jim did a much better subtle job of making her seem really real until Butters woke Harry up.  There also seems to be better ways of revealing that Andi is Nem infected.

[Dina]

I agree with ClintACK here and I think the Shiela example was in point (only I immediately suspected she was Lasciel and here I have not idea of the point). I think conjuritis will serve a purpose, probably the one you stated, and of course it will be useful at some point. Still, I've complained that Harry did not try to ask Bob about it when they were at Butter's place. And about the threesome, I am not complaining about that, I feel adding traits to a character make it more real, so it's the same if it is that he prefers coffee over tea (like Harry) or its sexual preferences. As long as it does not take much of the story, I am totally fine with that. Again, my problem was with Jim mentioning Harry apparent conflict with that. It was a highlight I did not appreciate.

[Mira]

I agree with ClintACK here and I think the Shiela example was in point (only I immediately suspected she was Lasciel and here I have not idea of the point). I think conjuritis will serve a purpose, probably the one you stated, and of course it will be useful at some point. Still, I've complained that Harry did not try to ask Bob about it when they were at Butter's place. And about the threesome, I am not complaining about that, I feel adding traits to a character make it more real, so it's the same if it is that he prefers coffee over tea (like Harry) or its sexual preferences. As long as it does not take much of the story, I am totally fine with that. Again, my problem was with Jim mentioning Harry apparent conflict with that. It was a highlight I did not appreciate.

I think you put your finger on it though Dina.   Once I thought about it I got to thinking Harry caught it from little Maggie, and when Eb said it is something that usually just very young wizards get, there was the answer.   However I am still not sure what the point of the threesome was.  Jim write it that way because Butters would seem to be the least likely to have such an encounter so it diverts our attention away from something else?

[ClintACK]

I think we might be reading too much (or the wrong thing) into Harry's "... and because I wasn't quite sure what to think about that myself."

If it turns out that that whole situation was a clue to Nemesis -- because one or more of the three of them was behaving out of character -- then that line might just be Harry's intuition nudging him that something's off.

For that matter, from what little we saw, the threesome looked like it might be more the Ross Geller version of a threesome than a healthy polyamorous situation. It could just be that Harry's worried that Butters is going to get hurt.

Also... WTF... Marcy's name was spelled with a 'y' in Aftermath, then in Ghost Story, Bombshells, and Peace Talks it's Marci with an 'i'. What's that about?

[Mira]

I think we might be reading too much (or the wrong thing) into Harry's "... and because I wasn't quite sure what to think about that myself."

If it turns out that that whole situation was a clue to Nemesis -- because one or more of the three of them was behaving out of character -- then that line might just be Harry's intuition nudging him that something's off.

For that matter, from what little we saw, the threesome looked like it might be more the Ross Geller version of a threesome than a healthy polyamorous situation. It could just be that Harry's worried that Butters is going to get hurt.

Also... WTF... Marcy's name was spelled with a 'y' in Aftermath, then in Ghost Story, Bombshells, and Peace Talks it's Marci with an 'i'. What's that about?

 Personally I don't see anything wrong with it, however it was a WTF moment and not because of the way Marci was spelled.  Again, just what was the point of it?  As far as Harry's reaction, it really cannot be trusted because the heavy stuff he had on his mind at that moment.

[morriswalters]

Then he said, in a calm and sincere tone, “Harry, tease me about this or screw it up for me and I’ll knock your teeth out.” And he said it right. I mean, there’s a way to convey your sincere willingness to commit violence. Most people seem to think it involves a lot of screaming and waving your arms. It doesn’t. Really dangerous people don’t feel a need to shout about it. Delivering that kind of warning, sincerely, takes mostly the sort of confidence that only comes from experience.

Butcher, Jim. Peace Talks (Dresden Files) (p. 120). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

The whole thing sets up this line.

[Mira]

The whole thing sets up this line.

 Which also is a bit of a WTF moment..  I beg to differ with Mr Butcher, truly strong people don't need
to say anything at all let alone threaten violence.  If Harry was dumb enough to make some kind of crack, it's his problem, not Butters.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Which also is a bit of a WTF moment..  I beg to differ with Mr Butcher, truly strong people don't need
to say anything at all let alone threaten violence.  If Harry was dumb enough to make some kind of crack, it's his problem, not Butters.

I agree with you, but I found that statement made Butters sound weak; pretty much the opposite of the effect Jim was going for.  To restate what I said in an earlier post, "What can Harry do to screw up Butters new relationship?"  If talking to their mutual friends is going to mess it up or undo it completely, the relationship wasn't very strong to begin with.  Plus Butters told Harry, "I don't even know how this happened."  That isn't something a person would say who is in command of the situation.  It makes Butters sound like he's been manipulated and he's lashing out at Harry because his weakness (in this situation) has been exposed.  Bully's act like that.  Cowards also act like that, and the two usually go hand in hand.  Again, that's the opposite of having confidence.   

[forumghost]

Yeah, it seems to me that it's just another case of 'see how badass Butters is?'

First he becomes a Magitech Batman Jedi overnight, now he's banging multiple chicks at once, intimidating Harry so badly he's scared to mouth off, and trashing Sanya in a duel with like, 2 weeks training.

It's just another aspect of Butter's having DM's kid brother status.

[Mira]

Yeah, it seems to me that it's just another case of 'see how badass Butters is?'

First he becomes a Magitech Batman Jedi overnight, now he's banging multiple chicks at once, intimidating Harry so badly he's scared to mouth off, and trashing Sanya in a duel with like, 2 weeks training.

It's just another aspect of Butter's having DM's kid brother status.

If that is what Jim is going after or thinks he has to do to enhance Butters, it is a shame.  Butters has been one of my favorite characters for a long time, I was one of the ones who figured out he'd end of as a KotC back in Dead Beat.  Butters' strength comes from his intelligence, his openness, his willingness to stand up for what is right and do his best even though he is scared shitless. " Polka
will never die!"

[Dina]

I think we might be reading too much (or the wrong thing) into Harry's "... and because I wasn't quite sure what to think about that myself."

If it turns out that that whole situation was a clue to Nemesis -- because one or more of the three of them was behaving out of character -- then that line might just be Harry's intuition nudging him that something's off.

For that matter, from what little we saw, the threesome looked like it might be more the Ross Geller version of a threesome than a healthy polyamorous situation. It could just be that Harry's worried that Butters is going to get hurt.

Also... WTF... Marcy's name was spelled with a 'y' in Aftermath, then in Ghost Story, Bombshells, and Peace Talks it's Marci with an 'i'. What's that about?

You know, perhaps you are right, perhaps it is Harry's intuition. And perhaps the point was to have a excuse for making Butters threat Harry. I don't know, let's talk again after BG, shall we?

[Mira]

   Here is a question, where did Harry get the potions they used om the escape?  Harry didn't have access to a lab once Thomas was captured.  Yes, he went into the apartment to see if little Maggie was okay, but he didn't have a plan to save Thomas.  In the past he'd go down into his lab and Bob would help him cook one up,  did he scrape together the ingredients and Bonea help him in Charity's kitchen?
It wouldn't be something he just had on him..

[Bad Alias]

Especially if people have read Zoo Day, it becomes a "duh."

Why?

[Mira]

Why?

Because it is obvious from Zoo Day that little Maggie has talent.