The Hounds of Tindalos - who were they after? SPOILERS

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Suppose the ritual to time travel lets in the Hounds? You have to survive them trying to nip the paradox in the bud, at the same time you break two Laws for the price of one. The law against time travel exists, so it isn’t impossible, it probably takes huge power and focus and risk to life. The Hounds attack before you time travel, so Eb knows either he or Harry will time travel, and that he can do it successfully as they have already survived the Hounds. Eb is the Blackstaff with permission to break the Laws, so why not? There are no consequences for him on this ocasion.

[Yuillegan]

Well, all that and a small measure of simple luck. Vadderung says it's far easier generally to shape the future. The Law actually is Thou Shall Not Swim Against The Currents of Time...not merely going backwards. Vadderung doesn't say it is impossible, merely improbable. Just because he is allowed to do travel backwards doesn't mean he can actually alter events, or even that he has. And I propose to you that Jim hasn't yet revealed whether Time Travel creates an ontological paradox.

Besides, why go to all the bother? Plenty of easier ways to create perfect alibis with magic. Why do it like this? He could have someone enchanted to look like him or create an illusion or alter memories. He doesn't actually have to travel in time to achieve his goal.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Because Eb got the idea after the event, he already had the alibi when he realised he had/would time travel. He had an effect with no cause, and the Hounds alerted him to it.

[Yuillegan]

That would be an ontological paradox. He goes back because he already went back which reminds him to go back. So why did the first iteration go back?

This creates a timeloop from which Eb cannot escape. Or at least that's one theory.

Vadderung supports this when Harry asks him what happens if he kills his grandfather i.e. how would he know to go back. Vadderung says a twinned universe happens, one where Harry is never born and one where Harry fails in the attempt and is killed. The point being that because Eb already exists he obviously isn't killed by a time traveling Harry and Harry's own existence is proof. Which isn't to say Eb might not have killed a time traveling Harry earlier in his own life...but surely he would be trying to prevent this.

[knnn]

Humans bugs don't seem as likely, at least to me. Lara has mortals in her employ with the training to detect such mundane methods and they wouldn't disrupt the tech. But Harry being unable to see them seems likely as he isn't even aware of most of the internet.

I don't think Lara is actually being bugged.   I think it's simple human treachery (i.e. Justine stealing secrets).   If you will recall, Lara summarily discounts the idea treachery ("has never happened" -- conveniently forgetting about Madeline in Turn Coat).   We've already seen Justine go behind Lara's back for Harry/Thomas.   Who is to say she isn't doing the same for other parties (possibly with Thomas' knowledge and consent)?

[morriswalters]

It could have been Thomas.  What would he do if someone offered him a path to freedom, both for him and Justine?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Thomas loyalties are (aside from Justine) the White Court, Harry and his role as a Venator. He is beholden to no one else. Lara didn’t put the arm on him, Harry didn’t, and Lara is his link to the Venatori.

Justines loyalties lie with Thomas, Harry and the White Court. Unless there is some player out there we haven’t seen she would have to be coerced. She was linked with the Red Court but they no longer exist.

Why would either steal secrets for some third party?

[morriswalters]

To escape the demon and to quit being a vampire.

[Yuillegan]

I don't think Lara is actually being bugged.   I think it's simple human treachery (i.e. Justine stealing secrets).   If you will recall, Lara summarily discounts the idea treachery ("has never happened" -- conveniently forgetting about Madeline in Turn Coat).   We've already seen Justine go behind Lara's back for Harry/Thomas.   Who is to say she isn't doing the same for other parties (possibly with Thomas' knowledge and consent)?

I think the Madeline thing might be another inconsistency in the writing. Sadly the book is riddled with so many of them it's hard to discount them as layered clues. It's perfectly understandable how it happened but it would be nice if such obvious errors were eventually explained, or at least were not present if not intentional. An otherwise enjoyable book loses marks for presentation. But perhaps I am wrong and Jim has a clever way of explaining all his errors. That would be quite incredible and enjoyable.

I agree about Justine though. She definitely does leak to Harry when needed so it's certainly possible that it is to others as well. And if Justine is doing it, perhaps others are too. Thomas has been leaking information for years if you think about it. What's interesting though is that the really big stuff that Lara is up to hasn't gotten out. Thomas only seems to be vaguely aware of Lara's power grab and Justine apparently has no real intel. Lara is clearly aware (like her father) of the cycle. What's curious is that it isn't clear what cycle this is. It can't be the 666 years thing as it's only been 40 odd years since the last one happened. My guess is that something immediately follows the 666 years thing...some sort of conjunction. More on that in another thread.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Just so long as we don’t ger conjunctionvitis

[The_Sibelis]

Which thread is for discussing the cycle? I have  strong leanings towards the Yeats gyre. Also, before this 666 thing came up there was a Woj towards Nic about beings a couple thousand years old being in the know, I'd originally thought that to be the cycle.. or more correctly the completion of it, with around the 1k mark being where time/space inverts.

[ClintACK]

The 666-year thing sounds like it's not just the birth of a Starborn, but also some apocalyptic event in which that Starborn will play a pivotal role.

A lot of the craziness of the DF makes sense if you think that Odin and Nicodemus and Cowl and many others are scrambling for power and influence right now because they know that the once-every-666-years mega-conjunction (like the Halloween to beat all Halloweens) is coming soon. Heck, Nick mentions that time is running out every time he's on screen.

[Grifter]

Well, 666 has an obvious presence in mythology.  But if that's the birth of a Starborn, then what's the adverse number associated with the defecation impacting the rotary air conditioner?

Harry's 39/40 right now in the series and things are really picking up.  Can we expect it to happen 42 years after the Alignment? (Since that happens to be the answer to life, the universe, everything?). Or is it variable on current conditions?

[The_Sibelis]

I prefer fecal matter hitting the occilating rotor lol

[Bad Alias]

Thomas loyalties are (aside from Justine) the White Court, Harry and his role as a Venator. He is beholden to no one else. Lara didn’t put the arm on him, Harry didn’t, and Lara is his link to the Venatori.

Justines loyalties lie with Thomas, Harry and the White Court. Unless there is some player out there we haven’t seen she would have to be coerced. She was linked with the Red Court but they no longer exist.

Why would either steal secrets for some third party?

Because the baby realigns their loyalties.