Battle Ground Resources [Peace Talks Spoilers]

[ClintACK]

How long was the book, compared to others in the series?

(I have no sense of it with the e-book -- the DF books all read quickly.)

[Grifter]

How long was the book, compared to others in the series?

(I have no sense of it with the e-book -- the DF books all read quickly.)

It's the shortest in the series other than Storm Front, if I recall the original convo about it.  And the original page count for BG was even shorter, but I'm now seeing over 400 pages.

Here comes Jim's own explanation. He could not make it work in one book and keep the price below 50 dollar or something like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V9am4XyYz4

I understand the argument, that a bigger book is more expensive to make, but Wise Man's Fear was longer and was a hardcover, and it wasn't fifty dollars.

[toodeep]

How long was the book, compared to others in the series?

Counting only new text, or also old?  I mean, I think a good 25% of the book was summarizing what had happened in the previous 15 books, short stories, or graphic novels.  Telling readers what they already knew if they have read the entire series.  It really made especially the first half of the book a slog.  I found myself skipping whole pages on the first read through as he dropped the same summaries of people we know or things that have happened before into this book that he dropped into previous books (or at least it sure felt that way).  By the BAT Jim is going to have to decide if he is writing for readers of the series or not, because if he continues to write each book so it can be read by a new reader, its going to be 75% summaries of previous books and only 25% new text, and I'm not sure I can take that.

[Second Aristh]

I understand the argument, that a bigger book is more expensive to make, but Wise Man's Fear was longer and was a hardcover, and it wasn't fifty dollars.

Different publishers though, wasn't it?  I could see that possibly making a difference.  Physically printing a hardback that long could be an issue without the right equipment on hand, leading to bigger costs to actually make the books.

Not that that's necessarily the case here, but I think it's reasonable to not assume all publishers have the same capabilities.

[BrainFireBob]

Counting only new text, or also old?  I mean, I think a good 25% of the book was summarizing what had happened in the previous 15 books, short stories, or graphic novels.  Telling readers what they already knew if they have read the entire series.  It really made especially the first half of the book a slog.  I found myself skipping whole pages on the first read through as he dropped the same summaries of people we know or things that have happened before into this book that he dropped into previous books (or at least it sure felt that way).  By the BAT Jim is going to have to decide if he is writing for readers of the series or not, because if he continues to write each book so it can be read by a new reader, its going to be 75% summaries of previous books and only 25% new text, and I'm not sure I can take that.

All long series go through this. I've also yet to read a long series that didn't need a book that served no other real purpose then lining up the finale and ensuring all relevant plotlines advanced, at the cost of the book of a standalone.

For Jordan, it was Crossroads. For Martin, A Feast For Crows/A Dance With Dragons. For Goodkind, I rather think it was Soul of the Fire.

For Butcher, apparently it's Peace Talks/Battle Ground.

Also, concur on the hardback. Butcher's people publish a trade paperback sized hardcover. Longer hardcovers are typically full size; his people may not have the equipment. Which I'm fine with- I want them to fit on the same bookshelf.

[Grifter]

Different publishers though, wasn't it?  I could see that possibly making a difference.  Physically printing a hardback that long could be an issue without the right equipment on hand, leading to bigger costs to actually make the books.

Not that that's necessarily the case here, but I think it's reasonable to not assume all publishers have the same capabilities.

That would have to be the reason.  Otherwise it comes across as the publisher looking for more money.  I haven't been able to find much on other books published by Ace, but RoC managed 639 pages for Aeronaut's Windlass.  The full PT is now said to be 784 divided between two.  My 990 page WMF hardcover by DAW is actually thinner than AW which is a lot fewer pages.

If Ace can't print books that big, then they'd appear to be the only ones in that market that can't. Or they're the little guy that's swinging over their weight class, which makes them ironically perfect for Dresden.

[Bad Alias]

Firstly, can I state I love that the Fomor are Team Soggy Bottom.
...
And the National Guard will eventually turn up.

Especially since soggy bottom is a nickname for the State Department. I don't know why, but that makes it so much funnier to me.

Didn't Harry say the National Guard would show up too late?

I understand the argument, that a bigger book is more expensive to make, but Wise Man's Fear was longer and was a hardcover, and it wasn't fifty dollars.

Different publishers (and imprints within publishers) are set up differently. My understanding is that Roc would have had to subcontract the printing of a book of that size, increasing the cost. I believe it was Jim who said that. I know some members of the forum actually work in publishing and may be able to shed more light on the subject.

[Wrane]

Can we add Kincaid as a possible for team soggy bottom.  He got fired by Ivy is employable by those with the $.  He is proficient in wet work and would be helpful as a sniper.   

[Grifter]

I added Ivy, Mavra, Kincaid, National Gauard/etc to possibles.

What about actual allies and expected opponents for the Fomor?  I feel like they should have an army, but other than Turtlenecks and Frogs, I don't know what to expect?  Trolls maybe?  Who else do we know joined the alliance?

[BrainFireBob]

I'd guess the opposites of the Signatories, largely.

So, Norse Gods with Valkyries and Einherjar- Grendelkin? Jotuns? Dishonored dead on a ship of fingernails?

Dragons?

Daoin Sidhe- Formorians

Svartalves- Light Elves

The Tylwyth being a first strike is interesting. Did Gwynn ap Nudd know something, or were his people considered dangerous?

What's the natural enemy of a vampire? A ghoul?

If the ghouls are Sumerian, I suppose some kind of Zoroastrian djinni?

I expect Gothic living weapons, given the Fomorians predilections. Also why they went for the Paranetters- the same conservation of mystical mass is probably at play.

Oh, and so much iron.

[Mira]

Counting only new text, or also old?  I mean, I think a good 25% of the book was summarizing what had happened in the previous 15 books, short stories, or graphic novels.  Telling readers what they already knew if they have read the entire series.  It really made especially the first half of the book a slog.  I found myself skipping whole pages on the first read through as he dropped the same summaries of people we know or things that have happened before into this book that he dropped into previous books (or at least it sure felt that way).  By the BAT Jim is going to have to decide if he is writing for readers of the series or not, because if he continues to write each book so it can be read by a new reader, its going to be 75% summaries of previous books and only 25% new text, and I'm not sure I can take that.

Not only that but it has taken him years to get this book out!  If this is how it's going to be, crank out at least one every two years...

[huangjimmy108]

That would avoid the unfinished feeling I have now but then the publisher would probably put pressure to keep it shorter and we would have missed some material. Now he probably added some things.

Imagine you read book 5 and stopping just after the duel between Harry and Ortega is done. That is what it feel like to me. This book is suppose to be a single volume with dual storyline running in tandom. Similar to book 5 and book 6, only we got cut off after the end of single storyline leaving the second hanging.

[Grifter]

Imagine you read book 5 and stopping just after the duel between Harry and Ortega is done. That is what it feel like to me. This book is suppose to be a single volume with dual storyline running in tandom. Similar to book 5 and book 6, only we got cut off after the end of single storyline leaving the second hanging.

Actually, percentage-wise, PT is 44.89% of the whole story.  The Death Masks equivalent is the end of chapter 15, when Charity uses iodine on Harry's injuries after he has the tree house convo with Molly, and Shiro agrees to be his second and will go to the meeting with the Ramps at Mac's.

[Arjan]

Imagine you read book 5 and stopping just after the duel between Harry and Ortega is done. That is what it feel like to me. This book is suppose to be a single volume with dual storyline running in tandom. Similar to book 5 and book 6, only we got cut off after the end of single storyline leaving the second hanging.

I understand and share the feeling but maybe it is better in the long run.

[Grifter]

Added the Alphas to Team Chicago, since two (Andi, Marci) might ride with the Knights