!!!SPOILERS!!! PEACE TALKS !!!SPOILERS!!!

[Second Aristh]

I don't really buy that Mab's mantle somehow slipped.  I think Ethniu really is a heavyweight.  Just look at her handling Ferrovax:

The goddess walked forward, staring down at Marcone.  She circled him, shaking her head in judgement--and still no one moved.  She pointed a finger at Ferrovax without looking at him and said, "Introduce me to this ephemeral."
For a few seconds there was silence.  Then Ferrovax spoke in a ragged voice that sounded like it was being dragged out through his teeth.  "This is Ethniu.  Daughter of Balor.  The Last Titan."
Ethniu lowered her pointing finger.  Ferrovax gasped and staggered, putting a hand on the back of his chair to balance himself as he breathed heavily.

That being said, Ethniu came fully armored with a legendary artifact against Mab's party dress.  I could buy that the Titanic bronze could have some effects that hid from Mab exactly how threatening that Ethniu was before revealing herself.  Her kick through the wall was clearly a sucker punch against Mab's passive defenses.

[raidem]

I wonder if HWWBehind, HWWBefore and the other outsider knight are part of the same being from the outside.  In order to kill all three you are going to have to kill their puppeteer.

[Mira]

I don't really buy that Mab's mantle somehow slipped.  I think Ethniu really is a heavyweight.  Just look at her handling Ferrovax:
That being said, Ethniu came fully armored with a legendary artifact against Mab's party dress.  I could buy that the Titanic bronze could have some effects that hid from Mab exactly how threatening that Ethniu was before revealing herself.  Her kick through the wall was clearly a sucker punch against Mab's passive defenses.

She might have had a little iron thrown in for good measure.

[Avernite]

The whole entrance thing made me wonder if the Fomor are stupid, or just nemfected.

If there's one thing the current crop of powers is good at, it's cloak-and-dagger, sure... but the way to fight that is not to unite them all in a full-on slugfest. It's to chip away at one of them, show them weak, and then move on to the next. Suckerpunching Mab? Smart. Telling them all straight up to do their worst or slink over to side new-guys? Not smart. Marcone was needed to keep it together, because like a good mortal he defies anything, but still...

Or, of course, Ethniu is the distraction, and knows it, but gambles she'll thrive through it all anyway.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I work on the view that Mab went along the sucker punch as it achieved her ends, uniting the Accords members and shaking out fairweather members such as Ghouls. Remember that The Red Court are gone and the Denarians have left the Accords, the White Court are better behaved under Lara rather than her Papa, all due at least in part to Harry, and again because of Harry the Bigfeet are joining. Mab has been manipulating events and Harry to turn the Accords into a proper alliance for years. I don’t believe she stopped having been punched through two walls, she immediately turned it to her advantage, she knows unlike the Accord Members or the Fomor of Harry’s Armoury and relationship to Demonreach  she helped set it up for just this circumstance. That’s her ‘ counter sucker punch’

[magnuskn]

I just finished the book. Got it on Thursday and had work and social commitments until today, so I am days late to the discussion. Ugh. Most things already have been recounted, so just a few things:

- The book obviously is incomplete and ended kind of out of nowhere. It's too bad that Jim still is not in the top tier of writers who can just make his publisher bring out a novel at whatever length he decides to (i.e. GRRM).
- Jim kinda went the professional wrestling route of making Ethniu a real threat, i.e. he made one of the top wrestlers job to her, so that she is instantly put over as a threat. I hope he puts some serious character work on her in Battle Grounds, so that there is less of a "villain of the week" feeling to her.
- Obviously things have been left completely hanging with multiple plot threads (i.e. the feds being after Murphy, the council vote). This book really should have just been Peace Talks Part One, the next book doesn't really deserve its own title. It's just the second part of the same book.
- I am very happy with Harry and Murphy, but at this point it seems to me to be pretty obvious that Murphy is going Valkyrie very soon'ish, with Freydis just hovering over her and Harry. Of course I could be reading things I want into the situation, so who knows?
- There were multiple moments where I went "Aaaaah, just stop and talk to the people, Harry!" Ivy, Sarissa, Fix. I really wanted those conversations to happen. And I am quite unhappy that the Merlin hasn't shown up, I really wanted that conversation between Harry and him.

I am overall quite happy with the book, but feel left hanging quite a bit in the middle of a plot. It's only two months, but until we get the next one, it's difficult to really judge this part, because it's one single story.

[Mira]

- The book obviously is incomplete and ended kind of out of nowhere. It's too bad that Jim still is not in the top tier of writers who can just make his publisher bring out a novel at whatever length he decides to (i.e. GRRM).

They didn't put any limits on his past books..

[magnuskn]

They didn't put any limits on his past books..

He was pretty explicit in the interview/Q&A where he announced Battle Grounds, that the original Peace Talks was too big for his publisher and would have been very expensive as books go, so he split the book and expanded both halves of the story.

[Second Aristh]

Yeah, Jim talked about that conversation with his publisher.  To get PT/BG out as a single book would have put the price over $50 for a hardcover, and he didn't want to do that. 

I would imagine not having the machinery to publish hardcovers that thick and having to subcontract them out would be pretty expensive.

[Mira]

Yeah, Jim talked about that conversation with his publisher.  To get PT/BG out as a single book would have put the price over $50 for a hardcover, and he didn't want to do that. 

I would imagine not having the machinery to publish hardcovers that thick and having to subcontract them out would be pretty expensive.

The cost of publishing really must have gone up because Cold Days was over five hundred pages and the cover price was the same as Peace Talks approx $28.00.  Skin Game was four hundred and fifty pages, cover price cost roughly the same as Peace Talks $29.00..   I bought a Diana Gabaldon book from the Outlander series, over 800 pages for $35.00..  If Battle Ground four hundred and fifty pages for the cover price of $28.00, the total for the two books is $56.00!  Not to mention shipping, taxes, etc...  So my friends which would have served us better?  One longer more satisfying book that is a little more expensive or two shorter ones that in the long run we are paying more money for and are less satisfied?

Also since a lot of us purchase the book from Amazon or Kindle, we never pay the full price anyway..
When they were done discounting Peace Talks I think I was charged around $14.00 more or less, and roughly the same for Battle Ground..  The only way you pay full price is if you buy it from Barns and Noble or another bookstore, but if you belong to one of their clubs you also pay less. 

[Second Aristh]

The cost of publishing really must have gone up because Cold Days was over five hundred pages and the cover price was the same as Peace Talks approx $28.00.  Skin Game was four hundred and fifty pages, cover price cost roughly the same as Peace Talks $29.00..   I bought a Diana Gabaldon book from the Outlander series, over 800 pages for $35.00..  If Battle Ground four hundred and fifty pages for the cover price of $28.00, the total for the two books is $56.00!  Not to mention shipping, taxes, etc...  So my friends which would have served us better?  One longer more satisfying book that is a little more expensive or two shorter ones that in the long run we are paying more money for and are less satisfied?

Also since a lot of us purchase the book from Amazon or Kindle, we never pay the full price anyway..
When they were done discounting Peace Talks I think I was charged around $14.00 more or less, and roughly the same for Battle Ground..  The only way you pay full price is if you buy it from Barns and Noble or another bookstore, but if you belong to one of their clubs you also pay less.

Bottom line, if the machine your publisher has to make hardbacks can only handle a 600 page book, it's gonna cost a lot more to make a 750 page book.  They either have to buy a bigger machine or pay someone else to print it.  A $50 price tag is enough sticker shock to scare away a lot of readers that aren't as invested.

[Mira]

Bottom line, if the machine your publisher has to make hardbacks can only handle a 600 page book, it's gonna cost a lot more to make a 750 page book.  They either have to buy a bigger machine or pay someone else to print it.  A $50 price tag is enough sticker shock to scare away a lot of readers that aren't as invested.

ACE Books have been around a long time, it isn't like they are in business with a wee little printing press than cannot handle a seven hundred page book!  As I said I seriously doubt that it would cost fifty dollars at the end of the day especially if you bought it through Amazon.. However doing it their way if one pays the cover price you are paying well over fifty dollars for two books!  Someone is peeing up our backs and calling it rain.. 

I might add that Jim is a best selling author, you'd think they'd cut him some slack..  The first book in his Cinder Spire series is almost 800 pages long yet Amazon is selling it for around $14.00!  There has been a name change but the publishing company is basically the same.

[magnuskn]

It didn't really make much sense to me, either, but we gotta take Jim at his word, I'd say.

[Mira]

It didn't really make much sense to me, either, but we gotta take Jim at his word, I'd say.

We do, there isn't anything we can do about it..  However we don't have to like it..

[Runninraven]

- There were multiple moments where I went "Aaaaah, just stop and talk to the people, Harry!" Ivy, Sarissa, Fix. I really wanted those conversations to happen. And I am quite unhappy that the Merlin hasn't shown up, I really wanted that conversation between Harry and him.

It bugged me so, so much that Harry never made an attempt to ask Bob the Skull about the Conjuritis. Just took Butters' suggestion and never made any real inquiries to someone that knows magical maladies.

Loved the book, though. Even despite the incompleteness. And when Maggie told Harry that Michael thinks he is one of the best people he knows. Yeah...got a little dusty in the room.